Hey welcome to the stream indias government now has direct control over kashmir but what does the end of the territories semi autonomy mean for People Living there if any ok imo it could be a god send us your thoughts on whats happening in kashmir through twitter and you tube. It is now 3 months since indias government sent thousands of extra troops to Jammu And Kashmir and ended 7 decades a special status now the region has been divided into border under federal control the government says the new Union Territories of Jammu And Kashmir have a Bright Future but many civilians in the muslim majority region are still living under lockdown with their movements tightly policed and the internet and some Cell Phone Service is cut off hundreds of kashmiri politicians and activists have been arrested with many still in detention over the last few weeks theres also been sporadic violence on tuesday one person was killed and dozens hurt in a grenade attack in the Regional Center of srinagar for more on this were joined from london by natasha cole she is d associate professor of politics and International Relations at the university of westminster shazia ilmi is a spokesperson for indias ruling but im not a party b j p she is in new delhi. And i josh is a writer at business standards an Indian English language daily he joins us from canoe or in the southern indian state of hello everybody d good to have you here i want to say hello i want to start with Prime MinisterNarendra Modi on the very day that kashmir law that became officially part of the federal part of india and administered from new delhi he was both buoyant and then also quite fierce about what this meant for india have a listen. New highways new Railway Lines new schools new colleges new hospitals will all take the people of Jammu And Kashmir to new heights of development because. Being born in iran we will defeat every attack on the unity of our nation we will give it a job breaking response any attempts to break the countrys unity will never be able to withstand big Democratic Values and strong public sentiments. That speech really felt a little bit like the carrot and the stick and the stick fell stiff there im just wondering from the beach a. P. Perspective is this is this a good move is this not now you solve this issue about whats happening in kashmir whats happening. And now you say you solved it its been going on since 97 our we done our Mission Accomplished so thank you so much for having me i think. And there was need to do what weve been. You know an articulate that is 370. 00 which actually says that. Special status to people of kashmir but actually it takes away the basic rights which i actually got into it under the Indian Constitution so this was meant to be a temporary transitional probation and its source is as it is written down that it can be done away with by. Its ordinance and this has been part of the beach be the ruling partys benefits too so it is really not a surprise to people who belong to be who know what the ruling party stands for thats one and 200 most importantly article 370 became like a festering you know bone of contention like a soul so to speak to keep the feet off the jungle and fish mean you really need to from the rest of india so i think instead of calling me to as in being us a just better thats just as it that looks at this i think its pretty much the other way around i think the shear is finally out of peril finally its bill not be used by the separatists and the stooges who dance for the tune of pakistan and the military establishment which we all know houses the modules of less sure it. Is what it would be and who have been indulged in for years and years this Counter Insurgency and cross border infiltration and terrorism because a bitch what do you do with house then indian civilians and media citizens including many muslims have been killed in the theater in the last 3 decades. Not just that the bush media pundits which is another. Of my not a t. And push me has been totally as been planned since the 15000 fish meeting i learned who had to be thrown out of the valley so she has had i think i let me just push even to do ill just cause youre sort of killed wrong let me just pause he said. Aloud to have a conversation with you let me just poster from an article 317. 00 is the part of the Indian Constitution which case special status to kashmir thats right. And unfortunately it did so. I got a bonus question as a out its a conversation just how tight so i know what i would have so much to say. Thank you so let me begin by saying that i am not disappointed at all if you want to be good be spokesperson introduce the discussion with reference to which did come out but with no mention of except. This is very typical of the script yes the article i didnt reply john because really it was there but i really hadnt you were listening the article was placed there quoted reason and that is because of the political dispute something that the current government especially to recognize and all of this is being done for the better because we could actually challengeable at every possible then why im allowed to say anything about it which is a pretty basic question why do we need to be silenced for something that is a belief wont be a benefit why dont they be allowed to speak about it as well as the fact that this is not how brains any benefits to their own business this is just completely you know im sorry to say but this is just rubbish we had 3 months now natasha that is a point that so many people in our community have raised that voices were not included in this theyre not at the table i want to share this tweet from those of who says it would have been a badge of honor for india and indians if the people of kashmir would have been asked for today its nothing but for more occupation by a powerful nation of a marginalized Muslim States incite the idea of being asked that is at issue with many people including one who sent us a video comment i want you to hold to have a listen to be in a shop which is a ph d. Candidate at Ryerson University in canada and shes written about this topic heres what she told the string. Question here is that most of an Indigenous People whos written trained in the United Nations took original rights of Indigenous People to india china pakistan are all signatories your you have given no consent to the unilateral changes that were made retaining them by india and with this means that visionaries will continue to refuse colonial domination and subordination indians who want to exclusive use of military force and repression and in the International System in order for there to be a peaceful resolution to this conflict with the International State archives have to do is demand that there be a softer nation board and the more transition of the worlds most militarized place in the world so i dont get that one to you because i talked to has already mentioned that point but youre youve been covering this issue is this one of the main concerns youre hearing from just marys who say this has not involved us but it is about us. Yes that is true it has to be borne in mind at every stage when dealing with kashmir that article 370. 00 was a constitutional guarantee that was provided by the government of india to kashmir and kashmiris as a condition for joining or exceeding to india it was a constitutional promise that was given to the kashmiri people and if we would draw from that promise and to be fair it has to be said that that promise has been diluted by successive governments between 47 and today but if india were to withdraw from that promise it could only be with the consent or at least the consultation of the kashmiri people now the problem with this entire movie is not that article 370 was revoked because article 370 had been reduced to an empty shell in any case the problem was that it was effectively scuttled without even the face saver of consultation it was. You know in the opinion of every kashmiri that i have spoken to a humiliation to kashmir reeds and fresh meat and it was sort of a signal the feel by the new Delhi Government that they could drop the question maybe noses in the mud whenever they wanted but the problem is that you know when Prime Minister modi promises development and you know a new life and a new future to the people. The question that has to be asked once how was article 370 coming in the way up to this development in any case it wasnt article 370 was not blocking any development or any papers that were to be given to me so this is this is an argument that doesnt stand scrutiny and the fact is that whichever way you slice it the question the reason the question people should have been cancelled. Natasha can you tell us a little bit more about what is happening. Right now i know that schools have been out for some time some people say hey were not even a real shops this is our civil disobedience because we do not like what is happening to us take us for a little elements of daily life surrounded what all of us live. Cashmore administered. Well let me let me tell you that its not just a question really is going to not get there you are saying this is well documented by every single binding team that is independent back finding team of indians who has gone there and that have been well meaning of poor experience by indian women who are women and men who went on there and all of the work i like of the same thing the extreme misery that are being made of people because you can open the schools but that your rooms like is not secure so theyre not sort of classrooms that n. T. T. That are being had documented shortages of medicines doctors who have been whisked away on camera there is you know this really is our beliefs in this are only you really a great situation where these speak up then it would be seen as a sign of continued to live there like then that inductively got some kind of one cent and if you dont know what are you to do except except bearish and you know some of those reports highlight those that it means were one of them. Were in a village that was the small girl who was prevented by. The like on the i mean given to her father and brother only then you learned that instances documented by all of that it warts and all of the lead guys have been detained or who dont know how to dress i mean on this shore you know its you know i was with. Me who had you know who had got the indians that it was that was this and then quit to join politics lead up to speaking to mark up was the i mean we can go where you look at it whether somebody is a growing new bush really or you know what robot is that evolution really ought to be nationalised fish meat all of them have been made irrelevant and treated so badly. So on that point i want to bring in a couple of minutes from online but i do want to note that the connection to shazia ilmi has dropped so were trying to get her back and reconnect with her bring her into back into this conversation but i want to go here picking up off of what you were saying natasha doctors you need on twitter is actually replying to a tweet that you sent just a little while ago he writes there is heavy snowfall events total blackout no electricity nothing living helpless with constant fear no contact from outside world while the u. N. Sleeps to they have enough food water medicine fire to keep themselves warm all questions that he doesnt have answers to but someone replied to him right away but its a towel says what a cold blooded liar you are. Peaceful as never before has electricity and all of their basic facilities people are free to move around and enjoy their lives tourists have started to arrive all is well and the region is truly integrated with india. Unfortunately very accounts here to varying accounts but i want to give people the reason for it and its because of severe restrictions on getting information into or out of kashmir that comes to us via video comment. Assistant professor of south asian history here in the u. S. Heres what she says so india has not allowed any International Observers to push me in with the exception i. Think islam. Parliamentarians from europe aside from International Observers from human rights organizations or elected officials from the u. S. Or other countries have not been able to give access have not been given access to cash me which really begs the question what is india trying to hide if meanies are indeed happy with these recent developments and why cant the World Community see that for themselves why is there communication clampdown and the complete lack of access to the region. Shows it only is joining us now via the phone charles i want to get that comment to you people are saying that theres a lockdown and information is not able to get out what is india trying to hide a comment have said what would you respond. You know do you have unfortunately collected the opinions of those who stand for the separatists and this 2 djs because that have been a lot of International Reports a v. Day on Indian Television there are there are a plethora of channel channels who have the reporters visiting freshmeat yes there was the internet to log down and that was and there were political detentions and which is unnecessary and they were preventive measures to ensure all the law and although in fact that you mentioned that the casualties were done by the terrorists against whom below administration and these so far all too is acting is. To ensure all peace so they have been fired specially needed because the fish media my kids live with killed in kashmir gun dowie and violence by the terrorists who kill would come from other steinman tree and also i would like this lady not to be a butt in and also would like to interject and probably she could not hear me but i talked about the muslims who had been killed when i talked about 15000 such media pundits before that act that talked about the fish media of muslims who have been killed by the by these terrorists. And you know the other day even the schools have being that they have had people throwing day needs at the school for nominees who are just killed only because you opened the shot was killed by the by the bullets all the terrorists and not all of the it does security personnel so i think that is some misreporting and i think its deliberate and i think the dominant another to that is being bandied around shows the perpetrators of violence as the victims of violence the call freshmeat is this not about this community muslims yes especially media muslims who suffer gaps and you punted valda muslim rights and i believe because we were. They were all but then what im need of all the muslim well let me. Know that theyre not the be and group that im talking about but all and i know you believe that if. You let me but let me put it just as well as it has he has had. A im not that i want to then its that and so yes i understand how we have a limited amount of time off just just doesnt give a 2nd ok you have to rebut the speaking on the other side i do have. And that all the way through the show just finish your point because you are his real time to complain about its time. To get my point of view over to actually these represent and you give me thank you finish all of that but listen the god ive actually said brightening but what that little Girl Community is that everything the bellman the medium the number of women who would have lost that life and in heaven and the call of the me out of the problem then that there are actually happy because they can marry anybody else but. I see you and you represent a very important perspective here because obviously this is a big move i hear it still has to be a conversation natasha go ahead yes i just want to say that the level of discourse that has just been in the street is not is not the price they convert everything that is a political question into an existential question and i dont of course and who is who doesnt agree with then i start you know i dont know sort of argument the fact is that in you at the moment in relation to me it is acting as an end by masquerading as a democracy it is colonial because there is no one sense being thought of the question and allowed to be expressed that which we do not being humiliated they are arbitrary and i dont want to know what it would be im going to sign you know it would be. Just yet i am here i need to be out to hear natasha so that i can hear what you want to say back to her but i cant do that if you talk. Of beating her therapist not applying to larry. I salute that is for me to decide to hold tight for a moment thank you d. Yeah im sorry because maybe theyre being the boy who gave it science that subjugate and it is a bad thing to go who are white the only way they are going to be barbecued in india is by not allowing the mainstream indian media to cover it if this is not being done for the benefit of fish maybe they havent got to be in the net they havent got the guy. We want to want to push ahead because of all the people who are online who also want to be possible conversation i j i actually want to bring you back into the conversation via this video comment on what this actually means for the future of the region so we got a comment from 10 very often hes an independent researcher and hes coming to us from kashmir or pakistan administered kashmir heres what he told the stream doing on issues such as days of also during the intifada whether through conflict management module and during his night in 47. 00 this is the 1st of the over enough space for the various multiple narratives within the surface and. Trying our best to develop this internal political process so that you can measure im terrified to sovereign state stages of j. And k. Something to do them but its not easy for them to do. So id say what does this mean for the future and those who are seeking aspirations of an independent state. Thats actually a question for i j i j we havent heard his voice and in a minute i j do want to take that on. Yes its important to note that there is great complexity amongst the people of kashmir there are diverse opinions over there i mean it is a state that has representation from not just the muslims who are in the majority in kashmir region itself but theres also a hindu dominated jumble there is also put this dominated lot doc and each of these reason regions seen this entire situation develop in a different way for the Kashmiri Muslims of course its just plain humiliation. You know regardless of what shocks me its saying you know the vision of a put them in vision of me and this happy population dancing at liberation ostensibly is complete fiction but even in jumble there is a large Muslim Minority over there the people of jammu themselves are concerned that the statehood big taken away and big reduced to a Union Territory this is a downgrading of status for them so theres a little bit of a quality also that the special status of the state being taken away it is now open to settlement from means been stream india from people from other states and people from job wildcard that outsiders could come in by property said corner of business as a whole at a point because one of our reporters. And child she went into the kashmir region to talk about the law and also talk about business what happens when in part because of own going. Conflict and tension between india and kashmir and this is what she came up with have a listen to this gentleman. Good market is a favorite spot for indians traveling to escape high temperatures its hotels are usually overbooked during the festival season but this year there were hardly any to race the law is a tour guide but is now spending his days playing cricket hes moderate that even the winter and skiers from around the world usually arrive. The same but his biggest fear is that well the indian investors will come to question it and buy up the land theyre going to gauge or get a good Indian Government doesnt want anyone to come here they want the people of kashmir to suffer so much that the last thing they have their land they sell the land to feed their families. I dont we thing to pacing politics back and forth but what about the business angle and just people being asked have it in kashmir what do you make of that is is that going to be an ongoing impact because people may not even want to go to the ranch or. A yes question really is sort of dependent on outside help in many ways a lot of fruit and creche meters an absolute new piece of fruit apples speeches pears apricot all of them go out to india its economy is dependent partly on that theres also this fear of you know wild trading with india and drug states theres the fear of their identity being overwhelmed this is not just a question really problem other border areas. Such as i would not feel predation the northeast of the country are also granted these special protections which have been withdrawn from kashmiris now so there is this whole sort of combination of economic interests identity issues a sort of you know all of this has just been completely scuppered by by you know this measure that has been taken and what will sort of will come sort of to the fore if you go into any depth in all of this is that this is not being done it in my opinion as an independent journalist to do to provide benefits to the kashmir is it has been done to send a signal to the bush i do have that the rest i fished with this with this one right at the end of the show and and the tasha appreciate your perspective as well its its very clear that this conversation is ongoing and we will keep following it hailed the strong really can i or end with him as a man who says this change has not benefit the residents of the region and whenever the country goes against the will of the people change is a positive that is all for today thank you kasper please keep us comments coming from to take. 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