A particular way which poses posits as an alternative most people many people possibly most people would acquiesce and thats going to be the real test here i think as to whether theres legislatures legislators feel they can get away with his and where are they going to actually strengthen their political position by the suing this particular parts calvin you were speaking before about the perception of indonesia that that if these laws were passed how it would change peoples thinking about into indonesia whether they be tourists whether they be residents you know critics of the bill say that it violates freedom of speech they say that it discriminates against religious minorities including women and l. G. B. T. People so how concerned are different aspects of the government as to if this bill were passed in its current form what the rest of the world would be thinking about indonesia. Well i think that thats kind of a 2 part question when you mentioned how you know supporters within the government were saying this reflected what indonesians wanted in a way thats true and that indonesias muslims would not want to be standing up against that particular kind of version of islamic influenced law even if they wouldnt want to impose it on someone else so its one thing to practice something yourself in your home and to believe its another to have your countrys laws reflect that and i think that the 1st priority of the supporters of this of these reforms is to institute that what they believe is law influenced by islam as they believe in the nations want it but i also believe that there have to be thinking in the back of their minds that indonesia is not in a vacuum that they have to interact with the world and regardless of what they may believe about the laws in the reforms and the reasoning behind it its going to change peoples perceptions for tourism as i said but also with business because now businesses are going to have to consider how this will affect what they want to do the people that they may want to bring to an asia to run their companies and do business there so i even though it may not be something talked about by the supporters theyve got to be thinking about that because thats the economy greg critics also say that this bill would reverse liberal reforms that were enacted after democracy was restored in 1908 what do you say to that. Look i think theyre going to very good point at making that criticism and you know bear in mind were not talking about just a few people became truly being victims there are tens of millions of innovations in in stable marriages they dont have the legal documents of those marriages greatest reasons perhaps because that their religious status or because that simply or it that is very work they could become victims no one in indonesia really wants to isolate no one that the vast majority of people dont want to see democratic reforms welcome back they believe in democracy even though they dont trust their politicians and their parties they want a free and just society and a society that hands out of moral policing to politicians and literally to police. It becomes an Illiberal Society even if its only legislation on paper thats that sort of applied and the people recognize that they were a bit slow to recognize that threat to the liberal democracy to the nation and thats why were seeing these very energetic protests damien officials have said that prosecutions of foreigners under the bill are unlikely of course this is one of the things is generating a lot of headlines when it comes to the News Coverage of this officials have said that there would have to be not only proof that extramarital affair extramarital sex that happened but also a complaint from a Family Member or a witness i mean what do you think do you think thats actually the case would it be unlikely that foreigners would be prosecuted if this law were to pass or do you think its a its a distinct possibility that we could see that. Well i think that calvins point is that there are certainly many in the nations whod be concerned about the Economic Impacts there having said that in the nation politicians historically have always been quite insular in their perspective the inwardly focused not outwardly focused so what the world thinks is probably very much a secondary consideration in this regard. Ive been trying to get my head around how this would work in practice and if we look at a classic Tourist Destination like bonnie and youd say well that couldnt possibly be affected this terminate terrorists particularly young west intercede guys that it might not be married. What we know from place activity in places like bali is that they will often they involved in the setting up of people in supposedly criminal activities arrest them and then extract an amount of money in order for the process not to paper so its essentially a corrupt corrupt process it would be very easy for people working in hotels to essentially. Inform on unmarried couples sharing a bedroom so place to then become involved and then cite this couple look youve broken the law weve got to arrest you take you down to the play station you will stay here and youll have to go to court and you will stand john and he cites the court. Alternatively you can pay a fine in cash up front now and i think theres a very good chance that could happen so we know is that being a nation place are in many instances quite corrupt we know that engaged in the sort of texas people have been a victim of it personally diesel and to piling on the 2nd on the spot cash. For him on a traffic offense. This is is absolutely consistent i think it really is a big problem but the Major Concerns really the moral issues i think thats problematic but the watering down of the Anti CorruptionCommission Goes to the house of the studies. The proposed ban zones taking out against the president and state institutions go to the niter of politics and it sounds very much like what we had. This cycle new order regime of president s hot cold democratization when you couldnt criticize the president if i got back to nothing and criticize the president of state institutions then the opportunity for people to express legitimate concerns about real political problems in the country will be very much limited and that will part of the made here of course and i think that really does start to seriously impact on the top of Political Society in these is becoming calvin in the 1st part of his answer damien was discussing the situation in bali of course probably is a huge tourist hot spot there is concern about what all this would mean for bali so i want to ask you to spend expand on that because the Deputy Governor in bali has been quoted as saying if possible articles which are sensitive to our lives in bali can be reviewed or eliminated i mean do you think that we would see that happen if the bill in its current form progresses either in this parliamentary session or the next one could we see exceptions made when it comes to how the law might be applied in bali. Yes i think in that in the case of bali its very likely that if the laws do go into effect that there will be exceptions either actual exceptions in the law or exceptions in the way that the law is carried out but i think probably the Bigger Picture is the Chilling Effect that these laws have in places like bali but also this reaches to the Anticorruption Agency one the Common Thread amongst all those reforms is to have that Chilling Effect you dont have to actually enforce the law just knowing that that laws they are its going to for religious and ethnic minorities theyll g. B. T. Q community tourists knowing thats there is going to. Have a Chilling Effect on the way that they enjoy or decide to visit indonesia or do business there it will also. Can be used as a pretext as we were just saying so that the law could be there so that if there are other say Human Rights Violations or people that they want to silence or people that you know they believe are acting contrary to the government that they can use these laws as kind of an an excuse so i think the Chilling Effect from the laws is they are whether or not they are enforced or if there are exceptions in places like bali greggs of the bill apparently doesnt explicitly outlaw homosexuality but there is a growing concern that the criminalization of extramarital sex and new obscenity laws could in the future form a legal basis for persecuting gay people what do you think about that. Well thats absolutely the case and not just in the remote future if the code goes through that its illegal its that relationships alicia sure marriage now if youre married your. And if you will if you will thats not an option you cant get legally married get married. Perhaps the amount from a. Wouldnt be recognized so the fact that you if they defy. Bt means that you are receiving dock for. What was accused for d intimidation for shakedowns to higher profile people but it its just a nasty finishes these are legislation that would have immediate effect that if thats one of the great consequences and you know this is so much it all is with what decades of consolidation and democracy has been about what it will be voting for and if you want the onion of the asians this is a very young nation median age of 29. Thats why were seeing such heated outkast and that is as weve heard. Also the will of very crown of the way that they had a Corruption Commission has been doing and they dont want to see that challenge data they just i dont understand why these retrograde states that dont see this is very no ones asking for them and theyre very dangerous they may and if the bill were to pass local authorities would get greater freedom to introduce punishments for breaches of customary laws that arent currently covered in the penal code i know that weve spoken a little bit about these other issues throughout the show but could could you specify more about what exactly that would mean what kind of power of these local d authorities would now have to impart different types of punishments. Well that really again thats not in question because customary law by definition isnt kind of thought so it does create all sorts of problems and. What is what becomes a label and what is acceptable when its not and and with customary law we know is that in other places where it has been applied that it can be used by people who wield power in a local community for example so you can become the arbiters of customary law and and it can be used as personal punishments retributions it can be used to enhance and strengthen the status or the positioning of particular individuals in social settings that are economics and so customary lore is in many respects quite problematic not to say that there are elements of customary law which can be applied but unless they codified very clearly could assad and then then determining what they are and how they should apply it becomes a very gray area and thats not consistent with a cool and consistent application of the rule of law but look i think the bigger question here is why would the judiciary story why would the legislature in ns in asia they considering tossing this type of legislation in the 1st place what is going on in the nation politics at the moment which leads to just like you to actually seriously contemplate this sort of cannae and legislation which certainly has a moral element to it but also theres a very distinct regressive political element to it and i think that a. Real shift in the nation politics a real due to vision which we saw in the last president ial election to some extent that a real hardening of positions and polarization of the law if you like and then perhaps even a challenge for the authority of the president to mean im sorry to interrupt but we have run out. We are going to have to leave it there thanks so much to all of our guests Greg Barton Calvin dark and Damien Kingsbury and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story. And the whole. Is a dialogue that you decide not to have children and its what the stake is really human survival everyone has a voice that has started to put our community because of course this is a debate and its a heated one this is all about relations literally being able to do a ph d. And ideally join the global conversation with people i think if only they knew what is happening to. Play will be with us and they will be outraged on out is iraq. Im home i had seen in doha the top stories on aljazeera the u. S. Intelligence chief is due to testify before politicians about a whistleblower case thats led to calls for impeachment president dont want trump has been criticized for asking his new craning counterparts to investigate his political rival joe biden the socalled whistleblower the one that didnt have any 1st last or 1st rate or. Second tier information from what i understand you have to figure that out for yourself. But ive spoken with leader Kevin Mccarthy and the republicans many of them. And we were going to do this anyway but ive informed them. All of the house members that i fully support transparency on the socalled whistleblower information. Former french leadership she heard kaz died his lengthy career at the pinnacle of French Public life included 2 terms as president and Prime Minister that reports he forged his own path through a political career spanning 5 decades mayor of paris Prime Minister twice and president for 12 years Jacques Chirac held almost all the top jobs he was one of the most to prominent politicians in postwar frogs chirac was born in paris in 1032 after receiving a privilege education his political prowess was clearly evident he spent the night 150 s. Working in the Civil Service before becoming a protege of Prime MinisterGeorge Pompidou after that his climb was steep and fast within 12 years he was Prime Minister a role where he would push for welfare reform his march to the lease a palace began after he left the cabinet becoming mayor of paris in 1977 where he set his eyes on the presidency it would be almost 20 years before he would gain his seat in the elisei he was elected promising tax cuts and more jobs but within months there was a general strike bringing millions into the streets during his time in office he championed the single currency but the budget of the lease a sword in 2003 the us president george bush failed to persuade chirac to join the invasion of iraq winning the french leader praise from some quarters 2 years later chirac failed to persuade his own people to vote for a new european constitution memories of his leadership will be sullied by the corruption during his 18 years as paris may 2011 he was convicted of embezzlement Jacques Chirac though was a consummate french politician a survivor but his legacy is uncertain and damaged by his personal failures Natasha Butler aljazeera paris. Hong kongs chief executive is holding her 1st Community Dialogue session carolann will be meeting 150. 00 citizens but outside the venue there have been demonstrations accusing the chief executive of not meeting protesters demands british Prime MinisterBoris Johnson is facing a backlash against the language he used about opponents to his bricks at plans parliament is meeting for the 2nd day after it was called back from suspension on choose 3 the supreme courts ruled the poor a geisha unlawful mean while the e. U. s leave to go see to Michel Barnier says the block is still waiting for new plans from the u. K. Johnson Spokesman Says the minister Stephen Barclay will go to brussels on friday for talks. The embattled president of haiti is appealing for a National Unity government at least one person has been killed in the latest protest demands in the resignation of president and then luis the capital Port Au Prince has been paralyzed for days by protesters demanding change movies is accused of failing to tackle deep rooted corruption and helping to end food and fuel shortages. And a fire at a chemical factory in northern france is for schools to cause people to stay at home the blaze broke out in the early hours in round 200. 00 firefighters in the port city days storage tanks of waters Safety Experts are concerned by the pollution risk for the river sent up to date the news continues after witness. You know its one are you going to do that was a. One the one that it has of somehow will that has not been harnessed but that will lead to a hero mash instead of on much faster. Than it would have done and what ill tell. 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