Meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter. How i walk into the stream mothers and fathers often find the 1st few weeks of family life with a new baby are among the most demanding that many find that currently policies are insufficient in the precious early days of parenthood im femi oke and im returning to work after having a child brings a new set of day to day challenges right now to adama as part of our Online Community and suggested the stream take a look at how parents can get a better balance so send us your experiences and challenges with childcare and well do our best include them in this show chat with us live on you tube or on twitter stream. The u. N. Childrens fund unicef recently called on governments around the world to help provide more support to new parents u. N. Goodwill ambassador and foremost David Beckham has added his voice to the mix i would look. Theres no question in my mind being a parent is the most important job in the world and the one i most enjoy but millions of moms and dads struggles to balance work with spending time with their children im supporting. Governments and businesses to invest more in Family Friendly policies that help parents give their best. Lets celebrate their lets make sure they get the support they need to raise happy healthy children its about time. For more on this were joined by Caitlin Collins shes an assistant sociology professor at Washington University in st louis shes also author of making motherhood work how women manage careers and caregiving bussmann is a photographer and creator of swedish dads thats a series of pictures and interviews with dads and parental leave in sweden his work has been exhibited around the world he joins us now from and in pretoria we have zita local noname he is an associate professor of sociology at the university of pretoria and has expertise in family studies hello everyone all right and then. Good to have you know this is a universal top 8 wherever you are in the world child care is important im just what you say to go back to when you were a little girl and you will the impact a child on you is why youre doing what you do now can you explain what that connection is because thats going back a few yes sure so i grew up with a very hardworking and high achieving working mother and she was instilled in marketing and was wonderful at her job but always struggled to manage securing care for both my little sister and me and my parents got divorced when i was young and my mom juggled these responsibilities as a single mom for a time before coming to the decision that it was too much to manage all at once and she quit her very successful job to take a much less prestigious much lower paying position in order to spend much more time with my little sister and me and i grew up thinking to myself that there has to be a better way for American Families to make this work other than sacrificing personally ambition for the sake of ones children. Other people are also thinking there has to be a better way and theyre sharing their frustration with us its a palpable so i want you to look at this tweet from boris boris writes and i get up every morning at 6 am i drop my kids the prek. Or my little boy starts at 830 and in that 1130 and for my 2nd kid it starts from 825 to 2 30 pm can you tell me how is it possible to cope with this schedule and not be depressed so ill give this one to use boris here clearly frustrated what would you say to him those 1st few weeks and months after having a child and trying to figure out that balance. Very difficult that i really understand than most to teenagers but i went through this. So i know what is really tricky about is good complex and i. Really just a little put if you may because of government. Balance that balance that. Parents. So what do you think how can i really do. Well places to be in school that will be really you should be an illusion that comes to therefore you should build a mound of everyone with little from schools to 30 at large to recognize i dont like their example better use of school. If she would program or after school care you believe. She is big from the bad enough it probably this is just not taking care or so it is because we believe for example for me to accept a favor if you can screw the room intercept one looks ok and i think you can wonder what rio exactly yeah exactly if i want to bring in you on hand im going to do it. Because he will if youll go looking like you dont have a care in the world to achieve that saying youve got that parenting. Absolutely but that is a that is a post photograph let me tell you how rico and his dad started off a whole series of extraordinary pictures that really resonated around the world to see this is called swedish dads his go hand telling us about how to listen. In sweden. 480. 00 days total off. I was shocked because when i saw to the numbers there were only 14 percent that actually shared the days equally. So i started this project to explain the benefits of being home and taking full responsibility of the household. And also be a part of just childrens emotional space this is something that women have without any recognition. I want to plant a seed to dads around the world what impact it would mean for yourself and for your show and actually for your relationship if you would stay at home which is children for a long period of time you ended you stumble across the aisle so right there because of your paternity leave and then saying hang on a medic else is taking but i had to leave and it wasnt that many people. No it was a sad to see that it was so few dads that actually took advantage of being at home it was only like 1000 percent that chilly they say equally and tells something about the world not only sweden but also the world that we are the most equal country in the world in terms of parental leave. But still we couldnt call it the collapse of college so for equal because we have a long way to go. And that takes a lot of. People in terms of all models trying to create this kind of topic but also policymakers. Organization that works with the topic understand the benefit of it focus since not only about you as a person and a parent and in terms of children but also society wise this is the you will gain quite much and if we would talk about sustainability in the future we need to think about and talk about gender equality. In caitlin i can see you nodding your head there really thinking. Its so great to hear your sharing his views about this i have looked up to his work as a photographer for years now i have done interviews for the book that you mentioned at the beginning here with working moms in sweden and germany and italy in the u. S. And it was fascinating to me to speak with dad while i was in sweden who would talk about not their duty or their obligation to be involved in child rearing men would look at me confused when i said something along those lines and they take no no its my right to spend time with my child i have a right to equal access to time with my child my child has a right to time with me and my partner and this discourse i think is so important and i hear it echoed in the sorts of comments johans making so here is another echo i want to share with you and your comment we got from russia as an h. R. Professional in nigeria and heres what her thoughts are on men being part of this conversation. My conscious were envisioning children is really just sort of. Inclusion a little men in these police teams and in meetings this woman and reese complains she says no just mostly you meet in your stream or and what i find very interesting is that they dont look as diesel just ask. Lets. Because the issue here in in new responsibilities. Or in your kitchen and in new addition to your family. So little inclusion for them is it actually says they dont even ask for the days off just a few hours that there is that experience that you can relate to in your research and your studies. I dislike. As an experience but. I dont want to go back to work too unless. We all know its easy to miss the ideas to that situation is not enough to create a complex i think was it because of the high level of. How he did so when we talk about. Fathers and mothers on. Paternity leave. We tend to focus more than. Just. 2 because i. Like to for example. Most countries go conditionally free with. About 2 weeks but if i tend to be so much less for examples of those with only 2. Were talking about you have let me just bring you back in the conversation and i want to share some of these pictures that youve taken here and im wondering if part of the issue is also women having trouble letting go of the idea that while they know how to take care of cats i love to speak to him all time with his 2 little ones hes actually putting now polish on one of the cats honey have one on his knee this is typical breakfast scene had taken typical male thing where one kid is happening licking off the. The table the other one doesnt on the dinner and then one more hands off time these are not images i think if you have women in these images they would not be special so what is it about. Violating where were quite resistant the idea of well if we suspect the cashier maybe that will help us with our entire i think button but the responsibility of bringing up my kids. Sure i mean we shouldnt think about this as a women issue is should be more of a human issue in terms of having i mean i understood me while doing this picture certain talking about it that parents are leaving as one of the biggest question in terms of having a more equal society in the future and not only about. Women going back to work easier for me but also. That men need to what would this is ideal look like if men would participate more in the child care and in that way also trying to understand how to be responsible of someone else in in order to become a better world i need we need to take that into the knowledge and i mean part of what im just. Im just talking about myself but i have 2 sons and when they growing up i want to be there for them and i mean theres probably will be issues and questions coming up when they are in that period of time of being a shot of them becoming a. Man and maybe there are questions that only i can answer and i want to be be there for them so they can rely on me in and feeling comfort thats what kaylan and that takes time and the people are so researchers says that thirsts the 1st 3 years in the busy childs life is the most important turns in terms of creating bounce and ties to the parents. So its so interesting you said that the 1st 3 years because i want to share 2 we experiences and give this to you because i saw you trying to get in there so 2 experiences on this debate showing how difficult of a decision it can be so this 1st tweet this is lillian who says this topic hit home i recently quit my job to take care of my baby because a child needs a healthy start to life and you cant compromise this conversation came at the right time but then i want to share with you a video comment we got she is a working mom and she talks about the struggles that have led her to having to bring her child to work on the road with her sometimes have a listen. Last year. So i had a friend. Back in for a ballroom to go check on her. But i learned something. Late. Then i realize what an experience is. Reporting. And even the. Around the world sometimes were so kaitlin really 2 sides to that coin and whether or not staying home or going out in the world but pick up on that video comment because the idea of having to take your baby with you it leads to an enduring story but should she have to should should there be policies in place so that she doesnt have to. I was that baby when i was little i went to work and my mom often slept in the corner in a sleeping bag in her boardroom meetings and i think the latter point you make is really important this is a forced choice right the decision to quit ones job and stay home to take care give full time is a forced choice it is made in the context of a society that doesnt offer work family policies to support the reconciliation of both motherhood and employment and the video clip that you played really resonates i think a lot of mothers experience the sort of fall out when child care falls through and its fortunate to be able to find a solution and continue working but again more robust work family policy supports would enable moms to work without this sort of stress while theyre trying to focus as that woman was saying on presenting her big ideas to big and important people she deserves that opportunity and deserves their Health Care Support to give her the chance to be there. I think thats something that we often dont talk about. Being at home its also paid work as well which comes by being that own weve also had to take into knowledge and talk about that women often need to do both i mean if they go on to do a career they need to do the household the cooking cleaning all this kind of logistic at the same time doing career its like its impossible but if you would share the burden. It would be easier for both women and men and women to part partisan i really and i think im doing what they want to do. Can i just get in there from the perspective of that enough and up to taking my mother for a. Friendly job that also paying the mother will be a lower paying job or leaving you all to get. Called to do a little we really know when the form of the weather situation of a cause that i want to bring when you hide or look for money that all of us are going to be pissed and dont even wake you before months ago so it doesnt matter how general how why. I tell it to your parent tell you that they just dont come and do my duty to the pollution we want to do what are you doing not that situation because i know youve been involved in writing Family Friendly policies but beyond the powerpuff them wanted you to because if people are selling goods on a house in the informal economy they cant get themself a time off they cant get themselves new and paid off they still have to go to work so then you too are you looking to the state. To pay a little that they. Showed a local affordable accessible public publicly funded child to. Subsaharan africa like the way from police would always be an issue devoted to lets be candid hands like i know you look at a lot of Different Countries around. Southern africa but lets speak about south africa in particular is that government willing to test the kind of money which is a lot of money to actually help families take care of their children when theyre at work having made that kind of got to know that that decision has been be made you want to bring the experience of we do lucy your child to to to do that but. Some in the Credit Sector there have been examples of places that have on stage. To train a. Nongovernmental organisation to help women in the form of even the certification. Of. The high levels or well again also i mean let me just say what i think same i think because i. Believe it or not only at the end of the show paternity leave in south africa when was that introduced. Its november. 28th and now that message will. Go on the. Implementation and a place of course where it has been introduced for quite a long time. And as were talking we can see one of your sons in the shop with you and people online are loving that as well so i want to share this from brown sugar baby who says my daughter and her husband found a balance the couple has to be able to sacrifice a lot to make sure the babys needs are met so her husband step down because she makes thousands more he stays home with the baby until night and then she takes over for him to work another person weighing in on twitter says i think men should try to integrate themselves into their childrens lives because the mother has already occupied most about space i sense each and every time im at home with my child the love for my family grows so your push for men to demand maturity leave how is that going and whats the future of it. You know i guess the. Piece of the puzzle. Now the picture so its been accepted in 65. 00 countries and in each country in the topics and the context becomes differently for example when i was in peru discussion was about how to think discreet Domestic Violence in the family. For example in japan that were talking about. How to have more children in the society and tomorrow im going to do us open expression that washington the house of sweden. We hope to have a great discussions over there as well or what do you think what would be the main issue. Part of what i really im appreciating about this conversation is that were highlighting the reality of that these sorts of policies Maternity Leave the turn of the leaves publicly funded childcare facilities all of these are vital but they dont mean much unless people feel able to use them and comfortable using them and so cultural shifts about who we expect to be capable of and deserving of spending time with their children is absolutely vital across all the countries were talking about across the 3 countries that the 3 of us live in right if you have a policy on the books that says men can take the turn of the leave but no men do it and like it is the policy other than serving as a symbol rate so we have to think about what it means to change cultural attitudes about men and mens and womens roles and family life in addition to changing the policy is to be more robust and supportive on that no i want to play video comment from jill says the founder and c. E. O. Of motherly and he picks up on that. Our 2nd annual state of Motherhood Survey showed us that u. S. Millennium mothers feel as though society does not support them in fact more than 85 percent of those surveyed said that they did not feel that the government or corporations did a good job of supporting or understanding them what motherly believes is that now is the time we have society come to terms in value caregiving because in United States this is the 1st time in history that women are more educated than men and that means that women are in middle manager chops and moving into executive positions right at the time that theyre starting to have children and so if we do not find a way to support women through governmental policies Corporate Governance and cultural changes then we will continue to lose women in the workforce are most educated and productive in our workforce because that video is playing what our audience couldnt see with both caitlin and zito were nodding their heads along he said what were you thinking the other thing too i said smiling as you. Go except for 2 women that i was so like that i interpreted that to say we could bring. Men is when you need to introduce this issue and really. Talk about it because ive always used gimmicks. So i think if you look you can i dont know i dont know that. Its one of those said oh don