A surprise to the city were cut off you have to see it with the headlines on aljazeera coming up next here its a story. Facing realities growing up when to do you realize that you were living in a special place a socalled secret city getting to the heart of the matter while activists to live in jail just because he expressed himself hear their story on top to aljazeera at this time. Ok if youre in the stream today is uganda the best place in the welsh to be a refugee i really could be larger as always we are live on you tube now if youre watching us please do join the conversation there and your comments might appear on the show. According to a whole series of glowing headlines uganda is a power dies for refugees its policies experts say our among the most liberal in the world refugees can work move freely around the country many of their children can access education and they are even given a small plot of land and the basic materials needed to build a house but some critics say the reality is less than perfect and that uganda is starting to buckle under the strain of supporting such a huge number of new arrivals they also say that simplistic headlines may prevent difficult questions being tackled such as how to provide long term how to the refugees who need it so before we start our conversation i want to show you a map that illustrates where the refugees are coming from in east africa in somalia at the war in burundi the long running rest driving refugees into uganda d. L. C. Fresh from fighting in the east of the country and south sudan more than forty years of war and with us it was issue from Geneva Barbara loaches the un agency our Senior Regional spokesperson in kampala. Is a member of parliament representing the national female. Constituency also in kampala hillary because the state minister for relief of Disaster Preparedness and refugees joy dooku is a refugee from south sudan joining us from a rwanda and uganda and al jazeera correspondent malcolm webb is in kampala thank you all for being part of the stream today i want to start with members of our Community One in particular who is a refugee himself this is a rebirth of the creator on twitter who explains why he had to leave south sudan he says it was the last straw i gave up hoping all would be well the uncertainty was too much there were too many rumors super inflation still no salary new increased wave of crime and insecurity hits those traveling on the roads making movements a life or death situation in south sudan was inhospitable so we asked him what his reception was like in uganda and whether the idea of uganda being a paradise for refugees was a misconception and this is what he told us not at all uganda is a paradise for refugees forced out of south sudan twice and both times uganda was there for me thank you youve gone into joy i said reading of that tweet there and youre hearing his story can you relate to it at all and do you agree that your new home is a paradise to shoot home news that. Like we have learned that. If you buddy. Joe i have a picture of you im going to show it to everybody on here on my laptop and this is some of your early moments when you were in uganda i knew at the river nile with a little baby doing what youre shopping you get in the style what do you what are you shopping for i when i went to buy. The car how are people around you often when youre in a new country its the people around you that make you feel welcome or unwelcome how are the people around you who are not refugees how is your community behaving towards you the Horse Community very good that is the. Good. Ive never been able to reach because of the. I want to show you something from aljazeera this is a report from september of last year and the report is south sudan refugees face major obstacles in uganda you recognize the reporter it is welcome lets have a listen to a little listen to it. So she followed her religion for sudan last year when soldiers killed her neighbors with machetes this refugee settlement in uganda is her new home. And these muddy hole for now a source of water she says the trucks that bring clean water havent come for dave good in the biggest challenge here is what we have had no clean water for four days and when it comes to and week to stand and wait in line welcome priscilla tells a very different story there when youre hearing these glowing reports of refugees in uganda is there another side to the story that we need to understand and appreciate. Well definitely yeah theres theres more than one side i mean with regards to describing uganda as a paradise and you got to understand that any host country is a relatively good option for anyone you meet whos fled a conflict at home. But some of these conflicts. You know some of the people who are the places theyre playing from these are some of the you know some of the worst conditions in the world places that are extremely poor in the first place complex where weve had widespread reports of Sexual Violence atrocities committed against civilians and quickly targeted violence and you know this is why people are leaving by the by the hundreds of thousands from you know from several countries in this region so what they get out of end of course its better than that its relatively better than that but that of course doesnt mean its. You know its a good life theyve gone from being the rural poor in one country to you know to a marginalized group in another but with regards to the story we just saw bad and we traveled around the camps and very quickly ran into to this water problem in a certain area of one of the camps north in uganda where many people had fled over the previous eighteen months or two years from south sudan. I mean that problem was acute at the time i understand that one was since result but from my experience not just in uganda but from countries all over this region where every visit it comes if you do move around especially if you move around the. Red cross and all the rest its actually very common to find complaints from people on the ground made me about security maybe about safety maybe about the liberty of humanitarian services in this case the water was meant to have been paid for months before but i dont as hed come to visit you gone bad the people there were complaining that you know theyd raise this many times with the people who they were meant to raise it with and nothing would happen if they did. Say that after our story for media after our story there was some improvement i dont know how the situation is now but everyone the time told us it was a temporary problem that they you know they were trying to fix and that they had alternately fixed well minister are not one of the things that people are talking about online is how many refugees uganda is hosting and that are coming in we saw that map earlier of the places that theyre coming from and theres an estimated one point three million refugees thats often been reported that are in uganda and we thought this tweet from doug who says one thing that needs to be noted is inflation of the refugee numbers mr nic can you talk to us about why some people believe that this number may not be the actual number and and the story behind that. Very much return. Over the last one in about two months were uganda has received. Four hundred ten thousand people from the countries that are you sure and sure i mean you are. You going to spray from south sudan or one point one million approximately from republicans on well its good that she gets going higher than two hundred forty thousand u. S. Surely over the last two weeks we received the two thousand most were released and more up through troops coming into that country. How. We decide an influx from a regional in four hundred thousand of us approximately to one point four million on the over one million influx his critics challenges in you know what to me stringent together with the United NationsHigh Commission for refugees and the agencies that are involved in separate giving subsidies to basically fijis. The interest side and trust so there could have been short for a short comings here and there but of course some bad people or sometimes scrupulous interest citee out of twelve districts that course repeat yes we have about fifteen. Settlements but if hes and. We did big lighted numbers had in lunch had a little right number the management of this if you use post challenges because some but individuals is reported to have inflicted figures in one of the camps one did a figure comes and our reaction was immediate. On the second or jan right or i immediately called the Police Commander and asked him to immediately take up to my time in this good search to establish the facts and im in what are we suspended actually interdicted the officers involved which we suspect could have been involved in those areas. These include an awful if you use you know. We access. And i want to sell and it really i dont he says what. Management. Issue and when. You act on them. As if i so explain when we found or if found guilty if he did. And. I thank you thank you mr a bubble i want to bring you into the conversation here i received just a few hours before our broadcast. Tweet from the Communications Adviser to the Prime Minister of uganda he wanted to share this statement with us and it says the office of the Prime Minister has received reports alleging that theres been mismanagement of funds and other resources meant to cater for refugees and Host Communities in the country then it goes on to say i want to assure the country and our partners that any form of corruption or misuse of public funds in this and other sectors cannot be tolerated admitting that there is a problem admitting that there is a scandal that has to be addressed does this then put a black check in the mark of uganda saying hey were great with refugees look at how well were doing. We need. Mr minister im just going to go to because he is from the u. N. A. C. R. For the region i really want to get his take on it thank mr you mr. We need to welcome the resolve that have been shown at the highest level. Our High Commissioner for refugees Philippa Grundy was in kampala he met and we discussed all these issues and brought this to his attention heres a showed us that there will be responsibility fixed and individuals who are responsible for this will be brought to justice its very important for us theres no tolerance and this is just not acceptable that that has gone in to help the worlds most desperate. Showed go and be misused so thats why were working with the ugandan government and then and in terms of putting in place the verification of well edition process biometrics in terms of trying to get the number of fix but also all the individuals who have done this they have done this service to uganda and to uganda repartition as a welcoming and generous country for all the people who are fleeing war and conflict in africa. I think a bomber says it has no tolerance for us what are you finding you have refugees as part of your constituency do you find theres no tolerance for corruption when it comes to aid in helping refugees. Well thank you very much i have mixed feelings about. The office of the Prime Minister has handled funding in previous instances its not the first time a Corruption Scandal is hitting the office of the Prime Minister in regard to the use of public funds. Previously hasnt ended in the conviction of sound people that are working for the office of the Prime Minister i think for an issue like managing the. Refugees if this is the Prime Minister should have been more careful and established data systems to ensure that the man who would not be lost in the first place will know that the milk has been spilt waiting to see how the office of the Prime Minister is going to respond and if they are going to follow this to finality because the other thing is that many times investigations are done and they go quiet and no one is bird to blow and the story just remains on the shelves and there is no follow up a need so far in issues like this. You know that human beings who have taken refuge in uganda are at stake i think its important for us to keep our eyes fixed on the office of the Prime Minister and to follow the course of justice to make sure that actually the funds are accounted for and also its not just about finding out that the funds were lost in the process we also need to interrogate the possibility of returning this fund because the beneficiaries still deserve them so i would like to see more iron fisted the porch from the office of the Prime Minister is personally being knowledgeable about. Poor performance and the Corruption Scandals that have previously been suffered by the same office. And also this is very important to sort of bring back public. Public trust and and honor confidence into all this issues thats why we remain hopeful that this whole process will be seen through with a thorough investigation with the responsibility being fixed because lets not forget this is about desperate refugees vael all in a humanitarian service and theres just no excuse to let this happen and let it go. Or. Were going. To get color because if we dont investigate restraining the system that means the still the service very very will be very poor and the presence of conference will and thats me so its really. For you and she and rick i want to i will let our lead to clarify one thing that there has been in many coverage of preparations here and there there has been misdeeds by some wrong individuals those referred to right on our member of parliament of the previous country they are in jail they worked a day in jail right now serving jail so we have zero time a man who has never brandished a gun and when at that point did you dish with regard to fear would you dish will system if the judicial system cannot imply you cannot impose dark on the whole the culprits then the premises of these hands out of the congress and of them was the real justice system. I want to bring in one more person perspective and minister here you joy i hear what youre saying i want to bring this in just to throw this into the mix so this is from rosebowl she says the role of the sub in me in these conflicts shouldnt be overlooked or is that the president i think it is insulting if you tell south sudanese that our policy is good to them as refugees if our regional policies are making them safer in their home country in terms of Free Movement and provision of settlements uganda has done great but as we host more refugees there is worry that refugees become another income generating scheme where the regime the latest fund scandal is the tip of the iceberg so thats on one hand that someone who says we have to be looking at our own government there is i want to go and i want to get i want to give in the other side of that argument because that the two sided argument there is someone ill give up on this new minister i will give this to you this is a video comment we got probably growing are you have a. Minister have a listen i want i want you to hear the other side of this argument from someone whos actually uganda is being used as a pawn by western powers this is a bernard hes a researcher in kampala published then. That we havent been to a party situation in a way it was crazy that. The government you know. You were sending. Was already. Somebody you know where you have troops in central. So dont. Countries in Subsaharan Africa because here you need to drink the. Poems. So minister he says uganda is doing the bidding of other western countries what do you make of these two arguments. Price of war. We do not hundred resources or monies from the United Nations as government are our only stops at receiving the refugees giving them time trying in the settlements and providing security for their well being and of course to some extent we allow them into our schools into our head sent us and we give them treatment would smile and that hospitality is what they call part of this but of course the United Nations through one food program did go and to supply food a few days and who are actually just that biometric id and instead of using their biometric means to supply food and they just simply if they pee just at least or. For a few years and some of which might need checking and they dont check it and it disappeared food to wrong individuals and that is where the problem comes thats why we are going to rebut it it again afresh or they did it there it is that if you used to ensure that in future it will be no more giving some place wrong individuals some of the stat dont see any money i dont see what will even touch the money. That market. That. Scandal or alleged scandal came out then. Been saying that Biometric Registration of the refugees needs to begin with twice in the last year weve seen in western uganda communities refugees and in new south sudanese refugees being registered their fingerprints are taken and photographs taken by ugandan government or red cross officials in the data recorded in the database on a you know on a stack of luck or. Seem to have looked a lot like a biometric database im just puzzled why this is you know this database is apparently being being used in the field for maybe the last year and now now with this be growing even after such a database exists i dont see why there should be a dispute about when i may jump in here with a gun. When can you clarify. Why the law but not by any account for that. Yes exactly i think the way things have happened there was a disruption in two thousand and fifteen there was Biometric Registration then there was a deception now after seeing all these and raising our concerns the government has agreed for unity are to reintroduce the biometrically just ration system we have had a team on the ground in uganda and we are bringing in all of which is required to reverify and revalidate all the data which is for us is very important and this leads to do not trust also public are looking at us but lets lets start of forget for for the actions of