Story. Deportation or indefinite detention thats the choice facing nearly forty thousand african refugees in israel Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu calls them infiltrators is this action even illegal this is inside story. I welcome to the program im jane they endured a dangerous and desperate journey to escape war persecution and hunger and their countries tens of thousands of refugees many from eritrea and sudan of travel to egypt seeking a better life in israel but the government calls them infiltrators and says they threaten what it calls israels jewish character its begun issuing deportation orders to the tens of thousands of african refugees and warning them either accept money on a plane ticket home or risk being jailed will get so i guess in a moment but first imran khan reports from tel aviv its a common sentiment among Asylum Seekers here in israel who are being issued with deportation notices ready to stay in a prison more leave behind gabriel is another man who theories about his future hes twenty seven and from eritrea after a four year journey which involved prison time in egypt in israel hes now been handed a deportation noticed he says yes raids have dismissed his asylum claim out of hand hes being held at the whole lot detentions and well jazeera interviewed him they dont even. I dont know why they given your rejection. That. I came to you in such a fourth option you know im not going to get in search of. Well you know the government called out. The government in immigration experts say his case is typical but these new notices target people outside of the hollow Detention CenterMichelle Mann spicer works for an organization that helps Asylum Seekers and refugees in israel we obviously have a problem with having to send out and the refugees and Asylum Seekers to our or wander uganda or even leaving israel i mean these countries arent safer than whats happened theyre going there and theyre not being able out to stay so they go there and Research Shows the research that came out recently that they be they get there and they have to start all over again and going to countries that are very dangerous to try and get into situations where they can stay because its not safe to stay and wander in uganda israel has a hardline policy the first round of deportation notices has been issued to refugees and Asylum Seekers from eritrea and sudan thats about two hundred thousand people and they have sixty days to leave the country according to government figures there are some thirty nine thousand eritreans and sudanese in israel including five thousand children single men held here at the hell outta Detention Center and they were among the first to receive the deportation notices others sleep rough in parks like this one in tel aviv deportation notices will not be issued to women children fathers of children will anyone recognized as a victim of slavery or Human Trafficking but International Groups say israel is deportation policy could be violating International Law imran khan how does a television. For many migrants and refugees israel is often seen as a bridge to europe and its Strong Economy makes it appealing to those searching for a better life most of these refugees have fled from war or forced military service in their countries were talking nearly sixty thousand people who. Being turned away Israeli Government says it is already expelled about twenty thousand since two thousand and five thousands of africans of entered israel illegally through its Border Crossing with egypt but the government has since built a wall to keep people out and those who do make it into israel are not welcome by the government well lets bring in our guests now in west jerusalem we have robbie sable professor at the he Read University of jerusalem in tel Aviv Sigel Rosen head of Public Policy at the tail of its based hotline for refugees and migrants and in Geneva William spengler spokesman for the United NationsHigh Commission for refugees but before we get our panelists speak to an eritrean refugee hes seeking asylum in israel his name is tech at michael and he joins us on skype from tel aviv take it michael very good to have you with us so the day has arrived what are you going to do when your deportation papers arrive. Thank you for having me first first of all our. I have no choice i have to with the prison in a sort of work to support myself through one or uganda because i think i am Asylum Seeker and as i said of israel not in other countries even israel is sending a same speakers to one and one are in the form of me not to or is not other salable or not other if it is so or me personally in other refuse im not standing to one or rwanda for safety or for we have like protection you know something i want to work so i am here or i can derail for asylum that workers of all and how come you havent been granted asylum. Its not just me its all of the people who are waiting or in limbo for the last four years after the government gave us a chance to summit our side of the question so the last four years. I get nothing for stuff especially for mass not because. I dont know it is the question for the government. I dont have any answer for that but i can say it is basic like russia much of a good system by the government is specifically for the people we came from a dictatorship from here syria and you aside from so done other than that how have you been treated in israel and why is it that a country why is it that its a country that you want to remain in even if it is in a jail. Most of us for the last ten years have been welcomed by the public no basic government is going to lose it completely ignores Asylum Seekers you know so we didnt get any chance or system. To be welcomed so thats why i said because shes a place of the government to put out or to put it out in prison or in jail thats why they chose to be in jail not what you want or even to what sort of situation did you escape from in order to make it to israel and tell us a little bit about your story and ever try and judge anyday. First of all i was an athlete when i was in europe yeah and i was imprisoned by the territory without any. Crime was out anything they put me in prison and they pushed me to the army while i was out of it while i was also a student and ask them to tell me back to my education and by sport as it is me and they i thought me to be in the army if everything that. Made my just like completely different so i run away from the military base from the western part of the country and the border when across the border to sudan because to me i mean from my country and they ask me where i am wings i told them as of them i am leaving the country i am hitting saddam and they ask me to go with them to the prison i told them no because they escaped from prison escape from the worst thing that they can be minded and as i told you i stopped running away from them and they start fair to kill me three times but they skip and i came to sudan and sudan more than a year in sudan the same thing happened to me because i was listening to them and i said i dont know where from so that was all in november stars and so when i came to egypt on november seventh heaven the same thing happened to me on india in egypt years ago so i was not safe in sudan i was listed in egypt so that i was running and like i did myself to get safe and to get protected so thats why in the first place they came to israel take it michael thank you very much for telling us your story and whats been happening to you in israel right lets bring in i guess a single rose and i should imagine that thats a story you hear all the time and i what is your response not to to what is happening. Its very said that the government of israel came to a point to a whole decade or willie Asylum Seekers very badly the we are now at the point that is i want to deport the Asylum Seekers to two countries that claim they have no agreement with israel in the four years do you want which is that they sent all of the four thousand Asylum Seekers to disc two countries poor of that these two countries provide them no protection at all and just force them to continue the journey to look for a few jealous well so is that why so many are deciding that they would rather face jail stay in jail in israel then make that hazardous journey back in yes i mean now the Israeli Government is talking about force deportation but since two thousand and fourteen easily already sent four thousand illegal aliens and sudanese to grant them wanda under the secret agreements so it is a well known fact about a now when all Asylum Seekers in israel know that these two countries provide them no step towards and they have no possibility to stay there and this is why people say if we have no other choice we are the stain these are really prison then go to another journey that might end with our this william spin that not a happy picture is it. No we are very concerned about this policy and we have spoken out against it our main concern is that people who have already reached their lives to arrive in israel us as we heard are now sent to countries where they cannot find protection and they would be forced to make again long dangerous journeys risking their lives dying in some cases. And this is something that we have been able to verify recently when we interviewed about eighty Asylum Seekers from eritrea in italy who had been. Transferred onto this policy by israel to african countries and who then. Travel through countries war resell lives in places like libya and then crossed the mediterranean to find finally. Safety in italy and yet knowing this the government is pushing this onto them what sort of conversation do you have with the government. We are in constant communication with the government we have in the past cooperated closely with israeli authorities to. Resettle refugees out of israel to other countries and we have offered again to do the same thing to find solutions for these people what we want is something that works for everybody that provides safety those who are fleeing war persecution Human Rights Violations another same time works to help israel in the. Integration of refugees in that country israel has an obligation to provide protection to people fleeing war and persecution we think that most of those eritreans and sudanese who are in israel are refugees the meet the criteria for. Refugee. Finish and therefore israel has an obligation to provide that protection but we stand ready to help israel find alternative solutions for some of these refugees weve got my neighbor why does israel not want to look at these two other to be jumping in here when these alternative solutions posed by the u. N. H. C. R. For example and is this actually even legal. It is legal israel like all other democratic states is obliged not to send a refugee to a country where theres a well founded fear that will be persecuted because of his race religion or political views and is a abides by this therefore we are not sending people back to sudan for instance although they came from sudan however its perfectly legal to send to other countries who are willing to accept them israel does this other countries do it its a tragedy for the of these. African refugees but it is time is war cause of the problem isnt it israel throughout their money and here only because its kind of their race and their religion the fact that they are not jewish that they are black migrant know in the last the last two years weve got deported i believe ten thousand ukrainians and theyre not black and other words these people enter the country illegally we get when they were in israel we provide them with the protection but were not obliged to absorb no countries theres no country in the world that says we will absorb all african refugees no country and certainly not tiny not certainly time is well because there is sending them to three hundred days when there are facing where they will see conditions where they are not being looked after where theyre being kicked out and they have to go back on that hazardous journey israel knows that. The legal legal quartile in this you cannot send them to a country where they will be person theres a well founded fear as i said of their being persecuted because of their religion or race or something but you can send a Group Country that may not be as prosperous as germany we dont have to germany that wouldnt accept them but these are africans theyre that we provide them with a lot of money to help them settle down i agree they bought preferred to go to italy but thats italy is what i was perfectly entitled not to allow people who entered illegally to stay in the country again provided that we dont send them to countries where theyll be persecuted by the way most of the people who come scape in military service this is not does not come within the definition of somebody being persecuted prosecutor or persecuted for his personal views like i think they are you know youre finally having their lives directly where innocent people seek help jump and you want to say something. Yes the earth well first of all all western countries agree that to National Service even formally. They could nies by the fijis quote around the world recognizes them as live fijis because they will be persecuted if the return to their country and this is exactly the definition for the fiji in theyll fall which is not correct to say that they just because they are national so we saw army vaders they should not receive a few just a tooth in addition little send them to two countries the one they know granda a deposit with these countries is not at all poor african countries the problem is that they do not grant them stuck to guns are portrayed or fiji set off to millions of people but not to any three of those who can form israel and this is our main problem and concern because they examines all secrete and we are now asking why these agreements the thickly and in addition does countries denied that it isnt that there is even in the agreement both for and i know grand the claim that they have no secret agreement with these lael and they keep only peeking the refuse to accept Asylum Seekers by force so how dare you flail is sent its extremely small number of a few years and we are now talking about thirty four thousand every koreans and sudanese well sending them to poor countries who. Have to handle it much much larger number over the few g. s and they even dont admit that the individual except these people were a force so i totally disagree with everything you have said and rob you could i just bring up something you mentioned a bit earlier on about israel being a democracy and how its operating at the moment i mean israel prides itself likes to boast about being the only democracy in the region but if you look at the arab countries surrounding israel in the region they dont turn back. Refugees i mean look at jordan look at lebanon for example look at the treatment of the palestinians by the israelis that flies in the face of democracy. Israel has a lot of millions of refugees the Jordan Jordan is very liberal but there will be our future use lebanon weve absorbed jewish refugees because i come back to another issue. Military service is not being persecuted because your villages views or political views are we know exactly as if she says an illustrator makes a good service that i thought thats what seagal was laying out there is that its not a defy whats an area there in a minute somebody want to escape blush musher military. Other countries have conscription if you try to scape it that not doesnt mean youll be persecuted because your views in other words is will accept the fact that somebody was being persecuted because he belongs to a certain tribal religion we will not return him to the country it was like to be persecuted the fact that hes escaped military service doesnt turn him into a refugee under the nevertheless were not sending them back to a tree are we sitting back to earth african countries that are willing to accept them and be given payment but israel cannot absorb all these refugees i know it would be nice if i could say yes all the refugees from africa who wish to come live in israel im a favor tiny little state we cant do it william what is the problem here i mean it is their feeling that that jews are not wellcome in israel now if it doesnt matter im sorry non jews are not welcome in israel it doesnt matter what sort of persecution they facing at home how do you deal with this i guess racism as well in your work and when you are talking to the government. Well until two thousand and twelve these really authorities were granting humanitarian status to every tree and sudanese but then the policy changed and since then very few if any. Eritreans or sudanese have been recognised as refugees i think ten eritreans have been recognised as refugees in israel and one sudanese we would expect with the situation in those countries what it is the recognition rate for these nationalities to be much higher in europe for example eritreans are ninety percent of Asylum Seekers from eritrea are recognised as refugees on average in European Countries so we would expect israel to have a much higher recognition rate for eritrean the same goes for sudanese of course each case has to be looked at individually. Its individual circumstances. But we have concerns about these very low recognition rates and the fact that israel is not letting many of these people apply for asylum in russia we are also concerned about the new policy to send. People who have not apply for asylum to countries in africa because we think that. People will not find pro