Region on sunday at least thirty people were killed and Dozens Injured and asked trucks that targeted several towns theres headlines today as if you can hear inside story is up next after that i saw. Ok i. Live here and today weve been you. By popular demand from our Online Community we explore alleged slavery in libya and stories about exploitation and abuse of refugees and migrants. Sit this secret wish. Subst. Libya is a gateway for many africans hoping to escape at home but the thousands they dangle traveling through a nation in political turmoil can be just as perilous and there. Has once again put the refugee cry. In the spotlight the u. N. Backed government in tripoli has condemned the trafficking of migrants and both the e. U. And African Union say they help evacuate people stuck in libya but some human Rights Groups accuse them all of failing to provide legal pathways to safety this story sparked a huge reaction online with people using hash tag libyans against slavery to express solidarity with their fellow africans and to dispel what they were myth about racism in libya so what can be done to any or be a slave trade and prevent the continued of peace of people hoping to find safe haven in europe here with us to talk about this then a door spokesman for the u. N. Affiliated International Organization for migration he joins us from Geneva Switzerland in hamburg germany laurie scuse me in hamburg germany larimore mccauley is founder of the refugee Refugee Radio Network he also lived in libya prior to the four of the long time leader Moammar Gadhafi in tunis tunisia. Is a independent journalist in new york emad body is a social activist normally based in tripoli its good to have you here gentleman. Let it this headline here from aljazeera slavery is an outrageous reality of libya at the u. N. Human rights organizations all saying that this picture here is incredibly disturbing this is what you do every day larry whats the reality who reality. You talking to. Larry and let it lie you do with the refugees once they get to europe let you know whats happening back on the african continent lets start with you. Well we received them traumatic when they disembarked from those rescue ships. Harrowing stories the horrors of rape slavery i heard about slavery in about twenty twelve friend of mine called me from tripoli and said he was kidnapped and ransom was paid from nigeria to those who kidnapped him but as time went home. We saw reports on you two. Ross kemp from england didnt report went to china steve in nigeria also. And so i did a report earlier this year about the traffic you know women from nigeria to. Experience in libya so. We received the news about the trauma victims forever but they are very strong people determined to move. That out just what i just want to show people a picture of where people are coming from how theyre going for the libya and west see in three Major Regions across the african continent where theyre actually going from the far west across to the far east all heading north and that journey takes them from libya very often what has happened in the last few years that has made that journey even more perilous and for there to be even more cases of slavery i think whats happened is that libya. Libya is an ungoverned state in all you know in effect and there are its a small population its five Million People the same number of people has come from the small island that i come from from our land but its a huge country the size of france bigger. So whats happened is that the economy has become a migrant economy people are essentially exploiting the migrants as they come through full of hope that theyre going to come to some money realize dream in europe but the minute they step off the bus or more to the point their drugs or her truck their dream turns into a nightmare and so long before they reach the ocean as youre showing here these people are put through the mills in ways which i think we only do and the horrors of we only get a little glimpse of it and its truly shocking and what weve learned in the past couple weeks is that its absolutely unacceptable in the modern world that this should be happening and now a few more people have have gotten a glimpse at it as you mentioned there and i think thats whats causing reactions like this this is back on twitter she says its absolutely appalling that this is still happening in these quote unquote modern times another person writes and this is helen and she says this is in comprehensible in the twenty First Century where does the demand side of these markets quote unquote these open air slavery markets as some are calling them where does the demand come from husain can you give us a few more details on what this actually looks like when it comes to human smuggling and then payment for those same people. Well i mean in terms of in terms of the demand thats a very its a very good question i mean theres a lot of that in my interviews with smugglers with people who are working in that trade my understanding is that in some cases the the buying of these migrants is actually amongst smugglers and traffickers so its not necessarily. In all cases its not necessarily in most cases its not necessarily youre buying a slave to use him as a slave its more i need him to sell him off to another smuggler who can then you know exploit that person either for ransom or either to to to push him to pay for the rest of the journey that this migrant is trying to accomplish in my job by staying in libya nor may what do you know about this idea of either slave trading slaves marketing what happens to refugees when im trying to get to influence or you know what do you see with your own eyes. Well building on what house and actually mentioned believe that theres usually two ways through which the migrants are actually are smuggled theyre either transported from their home country to the shore which is quite an expensive journey and all the small fraction of the migrants can afford this type of journey because its very expensive on the other hand you have migrants that use a like the leg approach so they stop at certain points to afford the journey from one point to another they either get money sent from their relatives back home or they work in the point where they stop that and i believe the us has and that again they sometimes are sold from one smuggler or one trafficker to another and thats where this whole slavery issue comes up let me just bring in abdurahman alpha tory abbott i mean has been walking on the ground in libya trying to walk. Refugees are in Detention Centers hes trying to welcome people who are in communities. Heading across the street to want. Abdominal can you tell us what its like when you see people at the Detention Centers what are you seeing what kind of life are they having. Of course its rooted. In the region just like like in the shoes of those guys. Might believe something. Which is in the engine some things. That if the engine simply is that i dont like it and be a distance because but its a. Human the number of migrants crossing that if that at the end see you as you see. A lot of people taking advantage of like the fact you can sit and see the problem its making the cost like that see i think for a few months might be looks but it might well consider that profit comes expense like the most of us that he years. But what im saying is that most of the interest and kinds of right now would be a defense of its just like something thats already action from the government will accommodate the defense situation here because most of the schools want to look. At just the purpose that its nice if you wish and you know we have. The. Thousands. Was the incident was on the other side we have meat on that. And its. So good that the government its. Its really like that with the plaintiffs and at the provider said look at them so. If they did. Thank you so much for joining us explaining that the depth of the issues that youre dealing with there millikan lets talk about solutions there are lots of people weighing in on this is just one person believes some on twitter says short term the u. N. H. C. R. Should act on the matter to all these handle those who are in libya and heading to libya long term resolve the discontent back home to cut down on the refugee crisis and the u. N. Must deal with the african dictators properly on the matter rather than dancing with them so lots of ideas there but leonard i want to go to you because of course the i. O. M. Is working on a solution to this if you can call it that whats going on. I think solution thats happening right now and its not a solution long term its a short Term Solution is to get as many of those people that we just heard of who are in detention at the moment and get them home i mean just get them home get an air bridge going and fly out at least fifteen thousand people in the next couple of weeks we at the u. N. Migration agents have taken out fourteen thousand so far this year people who said that theyve want to go home because this is whats happening theyre being tricked into coming to libya they think theyre getting on a on the bus to europe but theyre not theyre getting into into a murder machine frankly and by the time we reach them they are desperate to go home colleagues of mine were in Detention Center last week there were a thousand people crammed in a small place saying take us home and thats what were doing and were doing it at the request of the African Union with the Financial Support of the European Union and the urging of the un secretary general and indeed of the Security Council so this is very much lets get these guys to safety and there are many many women there are unaccompanied minors there are a lot of people in a very vulnerable position and i would just like to change the conversation direction slightly because it is true this horrible things happening there in libya but why do people go there in so many numbers and it is because they hear and read about europe on social media they see it on facebook. Free free basics they see they can click and get to a smuggler and one press of a button and we need the social Media Companies to step it up a little bit and play their role in explaining that its not a free ride that youre not going to get a free trip to it a fresh job in europe quite the contrary there is too many people losing a fortune losing their lives wasting their lives and being terribly exploited when it is interesting you say that because we got this free from sin you see and larry ill give this to you since he says despite everything i see still some people are making the same journey and others are still planning why would someone want to risk being a flayed and with that its completely irrational this is one persons view of course but others might say the conditions at home might make that worth it larry what are you hearing from people. Well people are coming because of lack of opportunities home countries so this is the failure of our my own leaders back to africa but on the other hand the policies in europe has also helped to make this people move towards you. The case of libya my own so i dont want to blame but this really dig deep to choose the path that they are at the moment they wanted this week so thats what they get the issue of racism are those things thats been ben. You know the town of cowrie there was to. Eradicate it after the fall of so lets leave that aside what are the solutions the solution from i dont respect even my own opinion is that every question of our people. Must take place at the very fast pace the travel ban should be placed on libya africans should not go to libya anymore its not viable its not logical its not sensitive and we need to walk an educational process in africa a lot of young people lack education they dont know the dangers of migration so we need to go back to thats right walk with them in schools in primary schools your local centers and Community Centers you know not to relocate to for them to look inwards because theres a lot of opportunities also so now its just taking him out its i know it has thoughts and ill go ahead join him i find it quite ironic to be honest that the blame is put on the trouble mention the i mean people say a travel ban should be put on libya which might be the case but if you look at it from a policy perspective and shift your perspective away from the libyan environment a bit the and the International Community also contributed to this in february a memorandum of understanding it was signed italy that actually returned and intercept migrants and the Italian Coast Guard and italian the telling government is basically making the libyan coast guard do its dirty work because legally this is highly if they are allowed to just follow now you know i mean this is these are limited if you have people who are policy issues your piece on policy issues i agree with you europe has done that its elites find those kinds of agreements and i think the monopoly has not yet not. Left with his im not im not and im not in the political divide of europe thats right im im a straightforward person you know. Kiran what exactly is the Mountain Migration yeah that well solutions is what we are lucky and the solution is its travel ban when i mean a travel ban in troubled banks you. Little african countries african huge traveling to europe because it is also an african country let me just remind everybody let me just. Because i want to learn what it used to be larry then. Let me share with us of you and in fact i want to share this with her son as and this is from William William says this is a very sad story and i think the people doing this already know this is inhuman it humane i think the a u the African Union should quickly intervene with force and then this for me a coup security action should be taken the perpetrators should be brought to book has and what do you make of that the idea of going in in force to stop. Modern slavery is not even possible after that and i dont think it is i dont think it is possible at all i think i think it would just make the libyan crisis in itself worse which is. Which is at the heart of why the migration crisis has has gotten so bad and why were seeing modern day slavery i think you know all of these ideas of you know lets just shut down the borders and so on that theyre great ideas lovely but youre talking about thousands and thousands of kilometers of unguarded borders youre talking about a coastguard which is complicit to the to the trade how how are you going to do that how is you know again like i know its a silly comparison but we look at you know what one on comparison the libyan. Libyan authorities keep giving to me is the fact that you know the United States is still unable to completely got their border with with with mexico if people are going to continue coming i dont really see a solution when you can stop that you can definitely you know work and trying to make conditions that are imposing you know if were going to look at policy changes and so on and enforcing sanctions on on the specific people in libya who are allowing the situation to be this bad you know when we look at the when we look at the. Tensions at this for example its a we we need to look not just at the. Black market Illicit Trade side of things but also what were seeing in face value you know the. Detention centers are very bad and there are signs of slavery there as well i remember in two thousand and fourteen when id like to ask and id like to ask you go ahead and look at one drama. If i could just ask a question is it a good idea do you think its a good idea for an uncontrolled flow of people human beings to go into europe where the where theyre turning the politics of europe to the extreme right. And they are only destined to work underground or be returned home thats the first question and the second. Part is how to take the first question is i want someone to answer it who did you want to go to. Night is right well and have any other colleagues i just want to know tonight because a lot of cattle say blame europe for stopping people coming but is it a good idea we had you know we had the question as you say running out of time larry go ahead pick up es rant but the police. Are bent if we spend it in from the Human Trafficking itself what the people believe. Then are people would why rest in. Would those people promote good folks does not doesnt want not what works is to stop our people and that can walk is just another way and i just happen very quickly to respond to that i mean when you say you know who who are arrest who are blamed yeah it is mostly a lot of ultimately a lot of the trade its not just i mean not all to depend libyans but a lot of it is not just libya but also when you look at the communities in libya for example in south libya youre talking about extremely poor communities who pretty much dont have you know the the chances that these african nations are escaping from themselves you know this is a trade that they have found that can get them a bit of money that allow them to the nice guys you have those you have got the south and the. Centuries big. Time i just interject here i want to go back to the community i want to share a couple of facts and figures with our audience slavery in the middle east and north africa over to a Million People enslaved and then looking and slavery in Subsaharan Africa more than six Million People enslaved and across the entire world were talking more like forty five Million People enslaved this is not an issue just about libya. So i want to bring the three finale epically up really on a point that you made earlier in my. Not a yes as i said when taken about african migrants and slave auctions for ransom exists in Detention Centers thats a serious issue and it shouldnt be taken as a surprise but as a measuring stick on how the situation in libya has become e. U. And african nations are also to be blamed for these outcomes but someone else picking up on one of those points was hard says unfortunately there is no rule of law across much of libya so the world must act including the International Communities imad what do you make of that talking about the political situation in libya and the landscape where theres this fractured there is no there is no denying that the political situation in libya is a mess basically and there is no rule of law and if you look at it from a totally pragmatic point of view slavery was abolished by legal reform so from a again its all of the realistic point of view if the country itself does not have a rule of law and if migrate of the flow i would disrupt it in a way where migrants are returned to libya when there intercepted at sea slavery could reemerge given the economic problems that libya is going through us has and youre talking about people that do not have a source of income and i consider this a trade so for them slavery is an economic option its not because theyre necessarily evil it is because this is what they see. You do you see it is of course from their perspective something from their first you know i mean from them reacting to the price. If you are who phenomenon it is. That from their perspective it is an economic alternative if they run out of options they would not be engaged in this and if african migrants had better conditions ome if from south africa they would stay there gentleman im just going to go back to Abdul Rahman Abdul rahman is working with people who are in Detention Centers in horrific conditions right now abdul rahman im going to also just to sum it up in a simple sentences. Camera right at the end of this program what difference does conversations like this have on the detainees who are in libya right now the refugees the migrants who got caught up on all stock what difference does this conversation have for their lives. Or mine mine. Well. If. They are built. From their like homes which is like its. Nature and what. Outside of the reason ive been around and im going to ask you right just for a yes or no answer at the end of the show does conversations like this are they helpful of course not. So soon. Right thank you so much for being part of this conversation as a lariat abdurrahman and hostile and imagine the conversation continues always online and hopefully we can find a way that will help the detainees in libya and the slave people around the world see you online take everybody. Right. This month the International Campaign to abolish Nuclear Weapons will receive the Nobel Peace Prize but want to see the real threat in a series of special reports aljazeera examines the state of Nuclear Proliferation around the world. Thats what well get out of the shooting people are not trying to shoot a gun themselves and their other countries have managed to solve this problem but you worry that this conflict could erupt into an outright open war that the citys general security for all the people who pay the price clearly theyre right up in prejudice setting the stage for a serious debate up front at this time on aljazeera. Aljazeera. Where ever you. And i are on our entire nandan the top stories on our jazeera