Lebanons Maronite Church patriarch bashar arrives the first lebanese official to visit the kingdom since harare shock resignation more than a week ago but those are the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera after the stream staging thanks for watching. We are living through a technological revolution but are the machines taking over if the piece of machinery goes wrong is there a chain of litigation through which we can bring in legal system to bear Oxford University professor of Machine LearningStephen Roberts talks to all diseases at this time. With. Hi im femi oke ok im like a valley and youre in the stream live on aljazeera and you tube today it should be illegal for American Companies to boycott israel as state governments across the United States have vowed to protect Economic Security but could some lawmakers commitment to one of the us is closest allies ultimately compromise free speech this b. D. S. Movement is in many ways more frightening because what theyre saying is theyre not making a physical attack they want to make an economic attack and its not just radicals who are willing to build tunnels theyre going to mainstream businesses across the world to generate a corporate. A corporate anime for israel and we cannot allow that to happen here or. If you boycott against israel. Will boycott you if you do thank you for me thank you all for granted thank you thank you thank you very much more thank you thank you very. Well that was new York Governor Andrew Cuomo in june and nelson his decision to prohibit state agencies from participating in the palestinian lied. Sanctions movement or b. D. S. Critics of b. D. S. Say it unfairly targeted israel and in the past two hears at least twenty other u. S. States have adopted similar measures paralyzing companies accused of activity by pass an anti b. D. S. Legislation is also being proposed at the federal level drawing shot condemnation from Civil Liberties and palestinian Rights Groups who say such laws violate that free speech by criminalizing st have a listen to what b. D. S. Cofounder. Had to say at. Israel perceives b. D. S. As having have very serious strategic impact on its entire regime of oppression because thats her and as well as we do see the South African president as very important we see the u. S. Civil Rights Movement and the power of boycotts and that movement and affecting serious change at academic level the cultural level and increasingly at the economic level israels isolation is increasing around the world they see the writing on the wall and so do we is that an observable fact that statement that israels isolation is increasing all the absolutely why else do you think israel treats p. T. S. D. As a strategic threat and allocates hundreds of millions of dollars to fight the Movement Music that Intelligence Services and dictating policy to some governments that they want to punish p. T. s activists threatening churches and trade unions and social movements and solar. So what are the consequences for supporting boycotts of businesses stunning us to discuss in chicago we have team a highly shes director of palestinian illegal which specializes in the protection of palestinians solidarity movements levinson is the chairman of the new dress in Israel Commission hi there mark and i did say that fosters cultural and Economic Cooperation between new jersey at israel from dallas texas Charles Pullman is an attorney and founder of why israel matters as an Advocacy Organization i dont set we have to do it now josh is the policy director at the u. S. Campaign for palestinian rights however what hes good to have you here. B. D. S. Has been going on for quite some while now ive read decades what do you think its impact has been what do you know its impact has been on israel well b. D. S. Has many elements to it and anything that is legitimately free speech and is a Free Exchange of ideas between students business folks educated successor thats all fine b. D. S. Is not about that the b. D. S. Movement is primarily its goal is to delist you to my state of israel and really eradicate the one jewish state in the entire world but our legislation and the federal legislation is not about that the federal legislation charles and others can talk about that like comment is well new jersey legislation were interested only in economic and business conduct there is nothing about free speech in our legislation we have so we focused on a limited boycotts of companies do business with israel and free speech there are no prohibitions on free speech or legislation not you wrapped up an entire argument in about forty five seconds well done for that but i was really curious about what the impact of b. D. S. Has been on. Well the fact is that israel does see b. D. S. As a threat and thats because its a growing movement its a human Rights Movement its a Grassroots Movement and its a wait for people of conscience to make a difference on this issue that has been completely intractable our Us Government im conditionally supports israel in all that it does its now fifty years of military occupation seventy years since the refugee crisis started and so people will want to do something about it and this is a non violent way of making collective change so the fact is that where we see israel and its allies. Understanding that these kinds of movements can make a difference just as the boycott against apartheid south africa made a difference just like the montgomery bus boycott so lets make made a difference i would expect really important to see that that this is that intention that boycotts are artefact political change on this issue deem i was so let me just disagree there are multiple avenues to express oneself there are numerous countries in the world iran turkey sudan except for there are all human rights violators somehow the b. D. S. Movement is focused only on israel im sure youre aware that palestinians in israel have levels of Educational Attainment literacy medical care per capita income that really seeds those in almost every other arab country so and im sure where mark that there are sixty laws that discriminate against palestinian citizens of israel you cannot deny the longstanding Human Rights Violations that almost any Human Rights Organization has very well documented and i thank you. That palestinians had not had not achieved freedom equality and justice in their structure lets talk about it this is how the second wave of opposing opposing israels longstanding occupation and the United States has unconditional support for it so demon mark i want to go with tara im going to throw this to you charles but i want to get in there because theres a tweet very from someone this is for this in mind who echoes really what mark you started out by saying that pro israel authorities are afraid of b. D. S. He says because they think the movement hi to the ultimate goal of undermining and dismantling the jewish state but he goes on to disagree with that notion he says i think the b. D. S. Movement is the most ambitious empowering and promising palestinian led Global Movement for justice and rights and has a capacity to challenge israels colonial rule he says and apartheid he also says and a morally consistent effective and intelligent manner so charles i want you to weigh in here this is a nonviolent means of protest what do you make of it well why dont we why dont we go back and talk about what the real aim of the us if you look at what b. D. S. Campaign has published and its three the first one is that what it calls the colonialization of. All arab layouts it doesnt say the west bank it doesnt say gaza it doesnt say the Golan Heights all your plans because the palestinian leadership considers all of israel to be. If you really drill down into what b. D. S. Campaign is that its about him being in israel as a jewish state and nine the jewish people their own sovereignty in fact i have heard the founder of educate students for justice in palestine here and i was at a meeting i attended where he spoke where he explicitly said hes not in favor of two states hes only in beirut once that. What he has unfortunately doesnt seek is to improve the lives of the palestinians and to see peace between the israelis and the palestinians so that the last thing peace and justice and equality for both people in that region of the world so now that weve talked about what it is our audience has a better understanding of the two sides of that debate i want to move over into a point raised by our guests a little bit earlier into the legislation and the federal act that could potentially impinge on free speech some say this is what the a. C. L. U. Has to say about that have a listen last seeking to suppress boycotts of israel are deeply misguided and unconstitutional from the montgomery bus boycott to campaign to divest from apartheid south africa have played an Important Role in this countrys history and in one thousand eighty two the Supreme Court made clear that political boycotts are completely protected by the First Amendment the state cannot penalize people who participate in b. D. S. Campaigns simply because it doesnt like their message. So josh these laws that are seeking to suppress boycotts freedom of speech issue absolutely because as was noted by the american Civil Liberties union and brian in that video the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that economic actions to affect social change are protected forms of First Amendment political speech so when we hear advocates of the anti b. D. S. Legislation say oh well we only want to go after Business Activities not political speech business actions are of form of political speech and what were seeing in Congress Today is some of the most draco new legislation on any issue ever introduced in congress because the federal israel anti boycott act would actually imprison individuals for up to twenty years if they are furnishing information to or it vance sing the objectives of an International Organization boycott what as you look like rights everybody this is what this legislation is in response to is the un next month in december will be putting out a list of Israeli Companies based in illegal settlements in the west bank in East Jerusalem and Global Corporations that are complicit in support those settlements so what this legislation is trying to do is trying to punish anyone who supports the aim of this u. N. List and basically attempt to legitimize israeli settlements and take away our right as Civil Society actors to use every non nonviolent means in our disposal to try to end israels human rights abuses that your we just thats not correct at all im not sure which Supreme Court case youre referring to in the bush and. They are going to write but clear born was a complete prohibition on free speech and boycotts the legislation issue both federally and. In new jersey the state im involved in were prohibiting economic conduct there is no prohibition on free speech speech any business can hate israel any business can hate whoever they want what they cant do is they cant discriminate in the conduct of the a business if you discriminate in the conduct of your business that is prohibited and the Supreme Court and and a whole number of state legislative efforts have clearly stated that that is permissible to prohibit can i add something that i did so subtle i never have the same to get from i was so i wouldnt stay up to speed the same speed that were at let me just show you something here from the Jerusalem Post it annoyed becomes the first state to list Company Sponsored business due to b. T. S. So there is. A Movement Among certain states in the United States for them to penalize anybody for sending a us movement when did this start to happen to state legislation to ill come back to because i know you are very relevant to this as well i just want to just baby step our way through this. When did this start to happen when did states start to have anti b. D. s legislation. Well we originally saw anti p. T. S. Legislation after the American Studies Association passed an academic resolution in two thousand and fourteen since then weve seen twenty three states now actually enacting this kind of legislation and the fact is that the legislation. Look to kansas for instance each each state has slight differences but there the legislation imposes blacklists they are actually having states looking at peoples political speech to dermot to turkey to determine whether or not they boycott israel some states have requirements that people who contract with the state certify that they dont boycott israel this is an ideological litmus test on state benefits i said were talking about i think you said you can a teacher who can hear me say that they didnt and then he has already come straight to get there if there wasnt some were not absent as he didnt as one example then gemma come right team of the one example is a teach at powell finish up well the teacher who is. Who the a. C. L. U. Is representing and who filed the lawsuit cant engage in a Teacher Training Program because she decided based on her churchs. One kyra resolution that she is boycotting for palestinian rights that is one of the whole time for a moment so we weve had you opposite ive had a child shes a little doing it and youre also going to explode at a single day to hide it i will but just i need to correct something to address that the federal bill thats pending is simply an extension of the export of ministration our that was passed in one nine hundred seventy nine and the penalties that george mentioned that have been in place for several years and the export of ministration era has passed in response to the airport so its not inside out any little bit just explain to me and to our audience the boycott at the idea behind insta do. Simply be ok ok it is take stand the existing law thats been in place since nine hundred seventy nine two boycotts called for by International Organizations including that you do it and they and the European Union and thats all it does it doesnt it isnt a new law it is an extension of an existing law because of the and i semitic enabling legit resolutions that are being passed unfortunately today by the e. U. We are condemning israel for everything under the sun and they are going to cry yes and samples and i care now that the existing law had actually some success again let me just interject just so that i can help everybody out and keep following this so theres a free speech argument about the right to boycott theres also an argument its not to talk about that let me clarify and the other thing that i mean let me finish my sentence is also not about b. D. S. Being i wanted some attic markets may not. Well i happen to believe that b. D. S. Is anti semitic i believe its goal is the eradication of the state of israel the one jewish state in the world but i really dont want to focus on that in this discussion i want to focus on the legislation which there are too many missed statements going on here with the legislation let me talk about new jerseys legislation which i was primarily involved with new jerseys Pension Funds contain about seventy five billion dollars worth of assets the trade relationship between the state in new jersey and the state of israel has averaged one point three to one point five billion dollars over the last seven or eight years there is a fundamental economic basis and rationale for the state of new jersey to want to know that companies that want to receive investments from the new jersey Pension Funds are not boycotting one in new jerseys most reliable and valuable trading partners theres an economic reason and rationale for it and thats what the legislation is based on the legislation does not prohibit any free speech i may disagree with demon and josh on what goes on in in israel or what goes on in College Campuses and we can have that debate another day ill be glad to come back but on the issue of this legislation and the federal legislation all it does is it prohibits boycotts of israel you dont have a right to boycott israel and then say i demand to have the state in new jersey invest in me and its no different ill just say one more point here its no different its called the source of the nation again if you have that land raisers its because ive never seen one that it is i dont know why she was there and i made his eyes are boycotting israel and let out a conversation on our way from moscow to outstrip their hornet maradona expression joins us now i think it may i finish my point you are not allowed in the United States of america or in the state in new jersey you cannot discriminate against citizens based on the color of their skin. Based upon their religion based upon their ethnicity or based upon their Sexual Orientation you cannot require a new jersey to invest in a company that discriminates in any of those bases you jersey are addressing. Let me. Know and lets be clear about this jury as you know is that your strawman is sort of going to just because i cant get everyones talking at each other it is how i am just going to jump in and i am just tired of everybody how tight for a moment were going to take us so ill bring you the send because theres a lot of use like this is adam he says this seems like an obvious breach of the First Amendment another person who would agree with him Stephen Shalom of a member of the jewish voice for peace says we oppose the recent anti b. D. S. Legislation for two reasons one because the laws violate our basic Constitutional Rights and two because they are designed to help israel carry out its ongoing oppression of palestinians there is someone who push back against that though this is your gene hes a professor at Northwestern University school of law he says these state laws arent on a constitutional just as a state can say that it wont do business with companies that boycott people because of their race or Sexual Orientation mark just as you were saying and indeed many states have such rules they can also say they consider boycotts of israel to be an impermissible form of discrimination josh that argument when you make of it well first of all the professor from northwestern is actually an israeli settler who has written a lot of these. Bills that are fundamentally unconstitutional so i would take what he says with a huge grain of salt but this is not about discrimination this is about taking moral action in support of human rights the fact that there are jewish people who live in israel is immaterial to the discussion its not about the religion of the people who live there its about what the policies of that government are toward the Palestinian People and for seventy years israel has engaged in a separate and equal regime of apartheid. Against the Palestinian People b. D. S. Is nothing more than a moral response on behalf of globally concerned citizens led by palestinian Civil Society to redress that injustice and to try to ensure that palestinians are finally denied their long long they finally achieve their long denied rights and wont you know i do and i really yes but illegals are designed to do is to try to quash the movement to try to take the heavy hand of government and to tell american Civil Society that you can boycott this but you cannot boycott that and thats fundamentally antithetical to our constitutional right. To point. When the Supreme Court case in the eightys a clear board did not grant a blanket first ever right or clear born in fact involved black citizens who were boycotting white businesses who were discriminating against the blacks and thats all what will you let our stations do my day also and i am somewhere id like because im ready to tell someone if i also came because revealing this is an International Audience and so you know i want to talk about x. Yes and let me just say this with you set some blackness a boycott supporters. Kind of because i want that is how its be to. Be no i dont even know what that headline means israels not setting up the un is setting up a black. B. D. S. Is setting up a black this i can show it to you they publish it but let me talk about texas variable because what texas said was that if you engage in this criminal jury business conduct with regard to israel and a business is engaging in their conduct in the state of texas theres no obligation to do business with you and its simple not just you know does it hold on hold up wait wait its just about little c. L. A. When wait let me just finish out terrorism passes and has not treated now i think yes ill say finish up quickly tell us what i think the lesson team and its left in the centex texas legislation to is not ban b. B. S. It doesnt ban hate speech it doesnt ban boycotts people are free to engage in and they have in fact palace id legals website even acknowledges they can continue the boycott all it says in a state of texas hold on that state of texas has no obligation to support a business that is engaging in blatant discriminatory and i semantic acts towards an ally of the United States which is consistent with federal law so i want to just want to play this video because i want to get our community and this is one more example from the state of maryland this is kareem. Particularly after the Maryland State Legislature failed to pass anti p. T. S. Legislation this past summer it was absurd for Governor Hogan to issue an executive order preventing state entities from doing business with churches or Community SocialServices Groups because of their position on israel if this is a discrimination based on political beliefs than what is by issuing this executive order status boycotting the boycott or making it very clear that the state of maryland is complicit in israels violations of palestinian human rights. And i just about thirty seconds of us are running out of time what comes next. This comes next is this is purely political speech that were talking about we have got to protect our rights to engage in these kinds of boycotts to affect social political change which is exactly what the Supreme Court case that was referred to. So we have got to go into a post this kind of legislation that infringes on our ability to act collectively where our governments are refused to do anything about the fifty year old talking about he is between me and many are in just i was going to. Be in and out of it. Its a delight to have you on the under house and just say its amazing how fast the show goes when youve got veteran people debating an issue we really appreciate you talking about b. D. S. And. I come from different perspectives on this im reading present your different perspectives i have a last comment to you tube live so for us as companies and people to be allowed to make decisions that are in line with their value you find many and i always online a hash tag thanks for watching everybody. Indulge your five senses. The new era in television news. It doesnt say that its a tough to do things in secret but i listen we had actual victims who had survived torture detention and saying this was the cause of my arrest if you could. Just stay with us. I got this conviction that everyone has a deep reservoir of thomas going to have if you give them the opportunity and wonderful things start to. Look at the actual distance theres at least twenty thousand or hinder refugees who live here we badly need at this moment leadership and so president Hosni Mubarak has resigned donald trump is going to be the next president meeting with the other guy. This is a subset its a bit west of the big youre getting anyway lets get recorded. By. The achieve something that never happened before. 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