America, you see, yes. Therefore, despite the fact that we took a lot from englishlanguage rock, this is of course a colossal school, colossal material in its own way , the depth of depth, they took a lot from our russian music, thats why its all for a reason, its a cycle of water v nature, but this is really what you remember, our beloved marina anreevna zhurinskaya wrote about rock when it was considered a phenomenon of world culture, right . In my opinion, this is a natural, the next, so to speak, stage in general in the development of culture, just like literature, well, you can call it, who, so to speak, adopted it from whom to a greater extent, this is also such a complex process, in what way continues to a degree, and well, as for modern music, we can say that everything there has been very much reduced due to the influx of various. Stylistics, substylistic, that is, this is a branch that simply goes into subtle music , which is so specific that they , so to speak, gradually dissolve themselves in the air, because if you look at the architecture of the structure of a tree, yes, when it first goes out into such powerful branches , then into twigs, into sheets into sheets, here the actual structure is the same, i will definitely ask about this, again with the arrogance of an amateur, but i want to return to the topic of literature, because in my understanding, russian rock, of course, inherits russian literature, i just now i was listening to you, you said about literature, i remembered that dostoevsky told us about the responsiveness of russian literature, and in the famous pushkin speech, that this is the genius of pushkin, that he could be, unlike this, its interesting, without inventing anything , if this theme of the responsiveness of russian literature, it persists in russian rock , we can say that russian rock is responsive, but i think yes, because we are so closely connected in general with the canons of literature that in my opinion, i dont know, where else is the text so developed . For example, in combination with music , but for us this is definitely a very important thing, and you will agree, alexey nikolavich, that it seems to me that this is such a slightly cliched perception that. Rock is more of a text or is it based on a text, and the western one is into music, so i just heard the opinion that this is a very simplified perception, especially the western one, yes, few people know that in the english language there are more than 100 thousand words more than in russian, and shakespeares word is more than words of pushkin, but russian is rock, he is nowhere without a word, you just understand, if there is no word, then there is no russian rock, in english rock, the word also meant a lot, there were a lot of conceptual and cult performers, and those who used the word became the performers, the workshop of such groups as pink floyd, the same ledzen, i for example, when i was a child, i didnt distinguish ledzelin from ddepol, i liked both of them, but when i was already living like this in the united states, i suddenly discovered that for a long time there were some giants, giant ones, and depi was such a strong poprock a group, and thats when. Or the nineties, then this appeared flow, like alternative music, there it was already impossible without a word, there everyone paid attention to the word, although there was that curt kaban, he lived the words and it was not clear what he was saying, but nevertheless, deciphering the words, everyone understood that he was about hes trying to Say Something important, but in our country the musical part probably suffered more often, in general in our country, precisely from the point of view of rock, here in our country, well, at first, when it was soviet. Everything was generally prohibited, i just personally went through this passed, and then people just didnt become very strong go deeper, so probably the russian lesson has a great future, when , uh, they begin to analyze the entire past, very seriously, namely the russians from the point of view of russian music, then they will shovel all of dostoevsky , then they will be able to do something brilliant, thats what i want here you what is the name from this place in more detail, you and i once talked about this topic, and then this thought stuck with me, including, excuse me, its nonobviousness, yes, you said the best of russian rock is ahead, and if this. Will be able to connect with the depth of dostoevsky, yes, then this this will be what we are all waiting for, yes, consistency, yes, thats how much , well, again, i dont want to offend anyone, but in my understanding, but dostoevsky is symphonic music, in any case, not necessarily, the same pink floyd this is such a strippeddown dostoevsky, yes, yes, very fragmented, so they tried , so to speak, to dig into such philistinism, and so, in fact, they achieved a certain effect, of course, dostoevsky is millions of times wider, i really liked it statement, i forgot his name is an actor who received five or six emmys, its like in tv series its an oscar, so he came to orthodoxy, he says i discovered dostoevsky, i often have to play scary people, some kind of scoundrels, so i suddenly realized that dostoevsky wrote about terrible things from the perspective of light, uhhuh, this is very difficult, this is very. And this is a huge strength for rock music its just a colossal field of activity, and you agree, whats still ahead for russian rock . Theoretically this is possible, but the way they develop reacted diplomatically to the events, no, but im just watching how modern music is developing, its quite possible that this. That level will take on a slightly completely different breakthrough, another turn will happen, and this will be a different level of quality, here you go it doesnt seem that this is still too binding, it is for rock music that such a proposal is something, or am i wrong here, in my opinion this is a good level that allows a person not only to develop, but even to improve in any way i mean, speech its about the spirit, and so to speak, the form of the word, a certain aesthetics, some kind, about how the thought itself is formed, yes, how deep it all is, really deep, in relation to something, yes, what is happening now, with him are gogol, and pushkin, and leo tolstoy, no matter what, with guggol its even somehow easier for me, i cant explain it, but its so intuitive. Somehow it doesnt occur to me, nothing sticks out to me, gogol, rock, i somehow understand it all somehow, gogol is punk, in general, in my opinion, he has such a specific language, especially from the current point of view, and why do i, when i read, for example, classics, and literary ones, i notice how rich the language is, how everything is carefully built there, how everything is formulated there, in gogol he has a very a peculiar language. Punk among the classics, vyacheslav butusov, alexey bilov, im vladimir ligoida, were talking about russian rock as a cultural phenomenon, i know what else i want to talk to you about, about my personal journey, thats the first question, thats what you think, here spiritual searches, which we obviously see in the life path of musicians in their work, this is connected to a greater extent with the generation, because this is a time of search, right . The end of the eighties, the beginning of the nineties, and not only musicians went through this path, or after all, what you are doing left its mark, this is more of the reason, or it is both, thats what you think, it seems to me that sooner or later in the life of every person there comes a moment when, well, he begins to think more about about, uh, what is happening in his life, how it is happening, you begin to understand, to say, well , seeing over many years how this world is developing, you begin to ask certain questions and in general, to be honest, for me the path of human attention is this the fact that we are increasingly noticing over the years how alarming the world is, if we take, for example, childhood and school, yes, i didnt care much about what was happening around me, except that in the International Panorama could you see some short excerpts of probble, here, but i can say that this didnt concern me at all, not only because i wasnt interested in it, it was as if i was protected by some kind of force, some kind of cover, such, you know, a conditional cap, so mystical, when you begin to think how to protect yourself, so to speak, so as not to dry out completely, in this raging world, then of course you wonder how this can be achieved, this is the path to god, but the most difficult thing is when you understand that yes, there is a way out, there is salvation, this is love, this is the path to god, yes, as anthony of surosh said, at the last judgment, it will become clear to us that the only thing that was valuable in this life is love, and so, when you realize at this moment that you need to go to, let alone improve to such degree, as, as jesus said in his sermon, like our heavenly father, yes, to be perfect, at this moment, other things terrify you, that you need to uproot this entire field, and this is a very painful process, uprooting stumps and roots, he not like that, just like that, he crashed a little. Very complex, timeconsuming and painful, and after that you can, so to speak, plow this soil and sow it, but if i understand you correctly, you think that this is still connected with age and generation, and not rather than with what you were engaged, i thought so until some time, until i was faced with the fact that i saw young people, which in our time, maybe even more difficult in some sense. Because its more intense , more tousled, yes, because the passions are right on the surface, and so at that moment when i saw these young people, i i joked a little in my theory, it has nothing to do with age , well, its good when we, so to speak, can stagger into the theory, alexey nikovich, what do you think, now im just talking about personal search, this it had more to do with time, what was in the air in general, or with what you were doing, like yours. That the lord determines his own path for everyone, and so he leads everyone along this path, because when i came to faith, when i probably had the second such most important milestone, this there was a meeting with the saint, with father nikolai guryan, well, with the great elder , so i had a lot of questions, but one of them, since i had heard a lot about music, about rock and other things, here. It was in the bowels of the church, so i went up to my father and said, father, but my craft is pleasing to god or not , so he smiled and said, whatever, whatever, so he knew that i had positive and negative experiences, once upon a time, thats when the party gorko appeared and we made different works, here and there we tried to go deeper, something we had was just like this straight rock rock, its true that along the way we began to change very much. Strong a lot and changed, changed, until the very end, until the group, so to speak, functioned in full force, we changed all the time, when the first album came out, then there was no internet and letters poured in from all over the world, i saw these bags , they put bags, bags, bags, it was just one day, and they told me, read this pile of letters, so i started reading, there were letters from all over the world, and in almost all the letters it was written like this this was the reason for just one song, thanks to you, this song helped me not to commit suicide, this was my first positive experience, although i did not change then, rock and roll remained, i still flew like a meteor, for a long time, a few more years, here we go, and later there was a negative experience, and this is all part of the journey, thats why i was just embarrassed and i needed to ask this question, and i asked, but look, this is a question its even, here we are today remembered gogol, perhaps not by chance, yes, after all, gogol without every fate experienced this internal colossal conflict, and i think, heres your question, my craft, maybe he said creativity, i dont know, in some other way, whether god wants it, its not at all a fact that he answered it, and or its definitely not a fact that he answered the same way as you, yes, rather, he said, my craft, my creativity is not needed, im deliberately emphasizing now, yes, that is , this conflict, how it went for you, is passing, maybe still is, but it is, yes it is, and i think it will be uh. Somehow way to develop, alexey was just talking about these things, and i remembered the famous painting by bosch, triptych , called the garden of earthly delights, and you see, the 14th15th centuries were strict times, then even playing music was considered a sinful thing, and although speech it was, in general, by our standards, completely. On harmless things, just playing musical instruments, notes are also depicted there, so it seems to me that in this case, this is a measure that a person chooses for himself, of course, thats as much as he likes , and if you really want to it was whatever you wanted, you just need to cut off any blasphemy, any heresy, any foul language in yourself, its just that everyone did this, including the revolutionaries, but i dont think that gogol didnt understand this, he understood, of course, but why did he have thats the decision there then, i dont want to go into biographical details now, but he, well , this is a sine wave, this is typical for a person, this is human nature, and i think that maybe there wasnt such a person next to him. Or he i wasnt looking for such a person, although uh, we used to often we went to optina and even lived in a monastery, now they dont allow women there, but before, they used to let them in, and we went to night services, they let me read the memorial, uh, those who came there, and theres gogol, so dostoevsky was there, they got there, they got there, they got in, unlike tolstoy, yes, yes, i think maybe he didnt ask. The most important question, some of these elders, and regarding their creativity, perhaps everything would be different, im just saying, swearing is such a terrible thing, yes, i just why i want to come back to you, i was asking about generations or whether its related to creativity, because thats how it seems to me, god knows, maybe im being deceived, but it seems to me that this is my path, for example, its quite standard, that is, this at the end of school, it is russian. Literature, this is dostoevsky, how for the first time you begin to think there, then just at the end of the eighties they begin to publish russian philosophers whom we did not know, and you begin to read about the gospel, about the church there and the gospel itself, and then in at some point, in my life he was just a person, we were taught, by the way, from the conservatory , he taught us the history of music, and he generally casually, he told us about the music of ancient india or something from may, there latin america topinazli chilitli, this is the whole story of a musical instrument. I still remember the name, and we asked him about something, the word church came up, he was fasting, now i understand that he himself was such an absolute neophyte, he says well, i think that of course you dont eat white bread there, but black bread there, and the point was not in what he said, yes, that it was such a neophyte twist, yes, in the fact that he said that, well , what . Theres no point in reading if you dont go there , if you dont live in this house, that s how it is, and this path, it seems to me, well, as i say, the path of these university boys. But for you, it was probably different somewhere, is it all the same, or is it similar . Sometimes we had to go down to hell in order to push off, so we understand that there is such a bottom, so probably, after all, there is a slightly different path, well, this is a strong phrase, i think that i came to church quite late in general, because my fate turned out so that i. I lived in krasnoyarsk for 15 years , where i was born, and ill be honest, i later tried to remember at least one church, i didnt remember it, purely physically, i just didnt meet a church on my way, which means either i didnt see it, that is, my perception is so dulled was, yes, or they really werent there, which is possible, because the city is quite new, plus, so to speak, the consequences of the bolshevik destruction, but nevertheless, here i came after college, after school, after even working as a specialist, as an architect, and for a long time i perceived music only as an amateur activity , as actual entertainment for yourself, alexey nikolavich, your phrase that we had to descend into hell haunts me. This is how you live with these memories now, what do they mean in your life today, are you trying to forget, no, it is impossible to forget this, i think that you need to remember, well. You need to, so to speak , not forget, this is all for a reason, it is all part of the path, and the thief had to be crucified next to christ in order to understand who is next to him hanging on the cross to shout to him change me, lord, into your kingdom, when you come to the kingdom, this is also a terrible path, he killed people, he certainly did. Visited water, before that, now, that time, the first one entered heaven, today we gathered our thoughts about russian rock, as a cultural phenomenon, vyacheslav butusov, alexey belov, me vladimir ligoi, we continue, i want to return a little bit to the search for generations, because among people, yes, that means in different spheres of culture, at the same time, when we were looking, we were all looking, yes, there were these searches in the movies , now we have a film coming out. About balabanov, it was slavas anniversary , everyone gathered at my house, they gave interviews, quietly , hello, hello, but here they are celebrating, no, no, slava, what are you doing, i said the very top left, oh, excuse me, you have, a person, that means experience, yes, interaction with him, right . How how do you do this do you remember now . Firstly, alexey and i knew each other for a long time, starting from college times, then he moved to st. Petersburg, then i ended up there, yes, she read the world like a novel, and he turned out to be, i once gathered a crowd in a cafe, a huge cafe, extras, only because the glory of the butus will play the song there. And this was a feature film, it turned out so free, everything is absolutely, a walk in the park without a dog, it can become too expensive for you, your mother teaches you by heart, the morgue phone number when she is not there, at home for too long, all this time, so to speak, we we are watching. Each other in the sense that he was building a cinematic career, and all this was happening before my eyes, he naturally, so to speak, observed what was happening here, at a certain stage already i, mm, had thoughts, well, somehow that we need to help each other, so to speak , just on this path, yes, on the path to god, i may be. Not very good, so to speak , in this sense, an assistant in terms of eloquence, to pronounce the necessary words, yes, but one way or another, in general, im with alexey i tried to talk about this topic, but sometimes he had a categorical attitude for a long time, because he was very passionate about cinema, for him it was a whole world in which he lived, master of nothing, Everything Else had, so to speak, applied significance to this, as it seemed to me. But as you can see, at the end, so to speak, of his path, relatively speaking, both professionally and humanly, he finally came to this topic, i tried for a very long time to persuad