countries further and further into this conflict? it countries further and further into this conflict? this conflict? it will in a sense. but i this conflict? it will in a sense. but i think this conflict? it will in a sense. but i think what this conflict? it will in a sense. but i think what we this conflict? it will in a sense. but i think what we have - this conflict? it will in a sense. i but i think what we have seen, this conflict? it will in a sense. - but i think what we have seen, the us is but i think what we have seen, the us is the but i think what we have seen, the us is the biggest player in terms of western us is the biggest player in terms of western allies. it has provided a lot of western allies. it has provided a lot of political cover for other countries lot of political cover for other countries like the uk and germany to kinda countries like the uk and germany to kinda follow suit. but you are right, kinda follow suit. but you are right, this k
because at the end of the day there s only one decisionmaker that matters, it s vladimir putin, and we don t know what he s decided. my guest is that he hasn t decided what he plans to do. i hope he chooses the peaceful path and the negotiation path. so i applaud our administration and other leaders for presenting that. if he does go in, lots of people are going to die, it s going to be horrible, especially for ukrainians but also for russians. it ll be the biggest war in europe since 1939, and it ll be the focus of the world for years to come. in the long run, however, i m a very optimistic. this is the last hoorah of the soviet empire. vladimir putin believes that he can subjugate the people of ukraine and he s wrong about that. he s wrong about that, i don t know when that day will come, it ll probably be tragically years from now. but this is the last hoorah, not the beginning of the recreation of the soviet empire. okay. former ambassador michael mcfaul
kind of dimension. 100% true right there. let me ask you both the same question as we wrap this up. and, melinda, you first. reading the tea leaves, your experience recently there in ukraine, how do you see this ending? what does your gut tell you? alex, i wanted to jump in and say one other thing about zelensky that shocked me from the trip to kyiv. sure. so, they re not ready on a military level, and they haven t gotten the people ready. but on a political level, zelensky hasn t called all the opposition parties together. and i really don t understand why he hasn t done that and why they re not presenting a unified face. he needs to do that. and other opposition parties have expressed a willingness to do that. so that needs to be something that he does today, not tomorrow. there s a real need for a unified face against the russian threat. how does this play out? so, the worst-case scenario is a conventional land war. the worst-case scenario is that it brings in other partners
that we know who is at fault here. independent of the rest of the world, is it calling putin s bluff? is saying, getting ahead of the news if you will, getting out in front of this misinformation, or disinformation is that putin s achilles heel? is this the sort of tactical play that the u.s. has been looking for vis-à-vis putin? i think it s the right tactical play, i m not sure who s winning. because remember putin is telling the whole world that his people, and its people inside ukraine that all this is about nato expansion. when in fact nato expansion, he completely invented this as a crisis. it wasn t a change of policies about ukraine joining nato and brussels. there wasn t a change in policy in washington under president biden. president zelensky hasn t changed his views. he said today when he s been saying for a long-time. he s a long term drain that he