january 6th, 2021 with his actions. that s when he refused to go along with trump s plan, and when it mattered the most. so believe me, the last thing i m looking to do here is give mike pence extra credit for realizing he doesn t have to take trump s crap anymore. but, this was a revealing week in terms of how far people are willing to go for trump, both on an individual level, and a group level. and let me explain why. new reporting from the new york times this week, that was more involved than previously known, suggests that trump was involved, any plan to have the military seize voting machines around the country. here s the part that really jumped out at me. if you re not sitting down right now, i ve got to be honest with you, you re probably going to want to take a seat. because the plan was shot down by none other than rudy giuliani. now, again, let s pump the brakes on giving rudy too much, or honestly any credit here. this particular plan had been put forward by sidney powel
involved than previously known, suggests that trump was involved, any plan to have the military seize voting machines around the country. here s the part that really jumped out at me. if you re not sitting down right now, i ve got to be honest with you, you re probably going to want to take a seat. because the plan was shot down by none other than rudy giuliani. now, again, let s pump the brakes on giving rudy too much, or honestly any credit here. this particular plan had been put forward by sidney powell, rudy s chief rival for the spot of trump s craziest lawyer. after shooting it down giuliani then tried to have the department of homeland security do the same thing, that avenue would get blocked by another trump loyalist when acting dhs deputy secretary ken cuccinelli told giuliani the department of homeland security officials wouldn t help him out. attorney general bill barr himself at one point a member of trump s riot or die crew had also shot down a similar plan to have the jus
heading towards fascism, and it should scare the hell out of all of us. joining me now is philip bump, a national correspondent for the washington post. philip, great to have you back on the show with us. another week, we learned more this week about trump s involvement in these plans to steal the election, or as he said, overturn the election. the time this time it was an idea from sidney powell to have the military seize voting machines, which you described it as one element of a throw spaghetti at the wall plan by trump and his loyalists to see what basically sticks. were you surprised to learn it was rudy who talked trump out of this? no, not really. i mean, i think you hit the nail on the head there with the fact that rudy giuliani and sidney powell had been at loggerheads for some time. and people remember. this was an absolutely bananas press conference at the rnc, the republican party s headquarters in d.c. in mid-november, which sidney powell outlined these bonkers claim
folks, this isn t normal. every week, on this show, we tell you a new threshold that has been crossed. and with every week that goes by, it becomes more and more clear how far into dangerous waters this country may genuinely never recover from. that s where we re going, unchartered territory. there s a word for what path we are on. if nothing changes, we are heading towards fascism, and it should scare the hell out of all of us. joining me now is philip bump, a national correspondent for the washington post. phillip, great to have you back on the show with us. another week, we learned more this week about trump s involvement in these plans to steal the election, or as he said, overturn the election. the time this time it was an idea from sidney powell to have the military seize votesing machines, which you described it as one element of a throw spaghetti at the wall plan by loyalists to see what basically