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know, face saving tactical move that they can do to deescalate. i think their only chance, frankly is a much bigger, bigger negotiation, not just missiles here, troop movements there, but i call it, andrea, helsinki 2.0. helsinki in 1975, we all sat there for three years, by the way, the negotiations took three years, and it was basically a settlement of world war ii, a settlement about the borders that had not been resolved and codified since world war ii with the soviet union, the united states, canada, and most of europe, and i think you need a big negotiation like that because if we try to square the circle like peter just said on nato and ukraine, there s a no win strategy there. there s a no win play for president biden. and what about arming the ukrainian insurgents, you know, expanding what would have been, you know, a likely grass roots guerrilla movement.

Andrea mitchell reports todayHelsinki 2 0Troop movements there2 0World war iiEastern ukraineNo win strategySoviet unionJoe bidenNo win playGrass roots guerrilla movement