goes back to matt miller s really important point about obstruction. so if a lawyer told the united states department of justice, that there is nothing else here, there are no classified documents, there is nothing pursuant to the presidential records act, you have everything, we ve turned it over. and that s not true, the next question is, why isn t that true, stephanie? is that not true because the really bad lawyers, and they didn t do due diligence, is it true because he asked trump, and trump lied to them, and they repeated the lie? did they know it was a lie? or did they not know is a lie? or, did they actually have eyes on these documents, and wrote a letter to the department of justice those false? again, this is why you do investigations. so could the lawyers be on the hook, conceivably yes, do we know that now, not yet. but matt s really important point, and i really want to put another sort of gloss on it, is that we ve always talked on your show and others about how
isn t that true, stephanie? is it true because they re just really bad lawyers and they didn t do due diligence? is it true because they asked trump and trump lied to them and they repeated the lie? did they know it was a lie? or did they not know it was a lie? or did they actually have eyes on these documents and wrote a letter to the department of justice that was false? so, again, this is why you do investigations. could the lawyers be on the hook? conceivably yes. do we know that now, not yet. but, matt s really important pointt and i want to put anoth sort of gloss on it, is that we always talked on your show and others about how hard it is to prove intent. it s the hardest thing to prove in these types of cases. not that someone did something but that someone did something intentionally. but when you cover that thing up, when you lie about that thing, when you conceal that thing from the department of justice and the fbi, it tends to
perch, he doesn t usually listen to that kind of advice. so i suspect we ll hear from president trump and i suspect we ll use we ll see him use some of the same techniques that he has for virtually every investigation, virtually any v accusation, virtually anything that does not go his way. he ll try to change the conversation. he ll point to someone else. he ll use what aboutism. and we ll see to what extent that w is effective. he ll use what aboutism. he ll say many people are saying. but matt, what will lindsey graham say? lindsey graham, who earlier this week said people would riot, they would take to the streets. lindsey graham is a former jag attorney. he deeply understands every word in this 36-page document. can he continue to go on conservative media and throw out this red meat now that the truth ist right out there in the ope? re well, you would hope not b i expect in the next 48 hours we ll find out that, yes, he
for msnbc news, matt miller joins us, former special advisor on communications for the nsa, and former chief spokesperson for the department of justice. and jeff mason, white house correspondent for reuters. ryan, you had the very difficult challenge of speaking to us moments after this document dropped. you ve had a bit more time, tell us what else we ve learned. i mean, i think it s significant, especially those photos that you discussed in the last hour, that show just how this was organized. i think the key part of this is essentially, them not trusting the trump team. because after they had that initial grand jury subpoenaed that was delivered, you had this filing that was signed by a trump reporter. so we don t know based on the filing what it was, but it s been reported publicly they said there is no responsive documents left. and lo and behold, when they
privilege for a former president, but by and large the courts have said that s just not true. so twoot different types of privilege at issue here. attorney/client privilege and there may be some merit to some of that that some documents are genuine communications between trump and his attorney and the government has said we already found those and we set them aside. with respect to executive privilege, i think that claim has to fail because mr. biden has said he will not assert that on behalf of mr. trump and those documents. matt miller, what are you thinking tonight? as usual chuck lays out why the former president s claims are likely s to fail on executi privilege. the most damming thing to me in this pleading from the government is the way they recount the former president concealed information from the