president not only has cases spanning from florida to georgia to new york, but these are really serious claims, and so whether or not he will be indicted doesn t seem to matter to his base, though, ayman. many people don t know what indictment means. many don t care. and as long as they think he s going to give them tax breaks or build his wall or continue to take away rights and freedoms of people of color and women of color across the country, they re fine with it. so this is political theater for them. tim, based on your work with the january 6th committee and what we know from news reports, what do you think is the possibility that we ll see another trump indictment in this georgia case specifically? i think it s almost a certainty, ayman, that there will be an indictment very early in the spring of 2021. they were already assembling a
the story we talk about. he ll get a lot of free press. the money that he s raising from these individuals from the republican party cobbling their moneys, he s a master at getting free press and he ll go around the country as a snake oilman does. now they re trying to prevent me again, and then he ll start turning on people in his own party, essentially lumping them with democrats. and he knows his primary voters are very strong voters. he s intimidated people within his own party. so he s a hero at once storming through the country, protecting them, taking away other people s civil liberties on their behalf, and he s also the victim, which is why he needs their money and time and attention and vote. tim, as the former lead
trials, and we know how trump feels about like candidates like that. we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial. if she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. we have an all-star panel with us. lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, alicia grier and author of the book black ethnics and tim hay think. it s good to have all three of you with us. lisa, i ll start with you. what s the most dangerous trial? at least there are some in the pipeline, but the one wes know about definitively. there s no question it s the records case that s pending in
which we know he is more than comfortable to do. so until the republican party can organize themselves and we can have a candidate or candidates, plural, who come together before they get to the stage, before they, you know, start really campaigning on a granular level, if they come out and start boldly saying it, then they will say. that until then, it will continue to be the party of donald trump. he will lead all the conversations, policy and otherwise because members of his party are, quite frankly, afraid of him. tim, i ve got to get your reaction to this, speaking of spineless republicans. you ve got former vice president mike pence saying while he found trump s words on january 6th to be reckless, he s not convince they were criminal. mike pence continues to defy every meaningful word about integrity, about principle, about moral character.
compelling? ayman, i want to make sure i m clear about what it was that folks said to us. it wasn t so much about his grand jury testimony as it was about the lack of testimony either formal or informal that he gave to the january 6th committee, which as you know and tim knows well was extraordinarily thorough in covering the full landscape of folks involved in election interference effort folks involved in extremist movements. they covered the range. will russell was not only among those witnesses, but he wasn t a name that really came up at all. he s not mentioned in the report. at least in my review of the transcripts so far, he s not an entity where you would expect him to come up among people whose job functions were similar to his. so what it is he has to say to the grand jury, i think largely depends on what other folks who didn t come before the committee might say. that s a group of people that