iowa caucuses. right. the only way i would lose this election is if there s fraud. so, there s a throughline that went all the way through. ted cruz stole the iowa caucus from donald trump according to donald trump. it didn t matter what happens, the idea is he set it up that if he loses, it s been stolen. that was said many, many, many times and reporters had asked him, if you win, was it stolen. obviously if you think of it one way, is it the other? i want to ask you about meadows because of what we just heard. is there a possibility i mean, what happens next? if you are looking at this case from the doj s eyes, what happens next when you start hearing this kind of language? sure. witness tampering, it s corruptly persuading someone with the intent to, i think, prevent, hinder, or influence their testimony. like i said, sara, it just doesn t need to be that much. you don t need to put the severed head of the horse in somebody s bed. you just need to intend to get them to
and we were chanting, count every vote. and a colleague of mine pulled a sign that said voter fraud with a 1-800 number and we chanted, call now, call now. there s a real difference between that and then what we saw not just on january 6 but in the run-up to the election. if i lose, therefore, it s going to be stolen. i have lost, it was stolen. and what donald trump has done and others have too. we ve seen this in other elections as well. but the president of the united states has more power. we call it the bully pulpit. it s much more than that. and it s what we broadcast to the world. has really weakened what we believe and everybody now believes in both party in the efficacy of our elections. and that s a real problem moving forward in america and throughout the world. and it wasn t just the 2020 election. he started making those claims as early as 2016. iowa caucuses. right. the only way i would lose this election is if there s fraud. so, there s a throughline that went al
mike pence and then later mike pence s attorney, lead attorney, to go along with the plan to overturn the election throughout legitimate votes or delay the certification of the votes to give state legislatures the chance to install pro-trump electors and put donald trump in office for a second term. but yeah, i mean, he directly names donald trump here as being one of the people who directed this plan and came up with it, and you know, i do think this is a fascinating revelation. one thing i will note, there is a throughline between sidney powell and john eastman today, and that s in this filing, he says that the trump ally, mitchell, recruited him to start fighting the election two months before election day, and ginni thomas s organization also circulated an email from mitchell calling on people to get in action and pressure their
particular be born, this is all of a larger piece. and that larger piece is the fear of whiteness disappearing in the face of a worldwide global expansion of people of color. and right here in this nation, we will not be replaced by jews, by blacks, by latinos, and others. that s part of the tragedy that has to constantly be dealt with and seen as a throughline from white supremacy beginning before 1619 on down to today. you know, the way you talk about it under that discussion is often talked about the browning of america. there s conversations around the census data and who to include, who s entitled to be thought of as an american. even recently you had members of congress audacity of the government to provide formula to undocumented newborns and give it to rightful american babies. the whole throughline is there. but what often follows this
throughline that probably doesn t get enough attention and that s a good note. it s a good note in the media sort of conversations too, john heilemann, there are no heroes here, no parades. but it s a story of appeasement, and i think, you know, the establishment figures who loan their credibility, they laundered flagrant corruption, brazen ignorance, and the bullying that is now has replaced one of the two political parties in this country. as usual, not enough time. john heilemann, to be continued. mara gay, thank you very much for starting us off this hour. dan goldman sticks around. when we come back, new details about the investigation that legal experts say could become the most dangerous to the disgraced ex-president. what the district attorney in atlanta is now saying about her probe and the threat she s receiving for leading it. plus, vladimir putin gets china s support amid growing fears that russia will invade ukraine. we ll look at what s motivating putin and why hi