at best with a wash. some may pay more. guest: we are looking for overall not raise tax burden on people. neil: i want to be clear. you are on board with the rich carrying a bigger chunk of the burden if their deductions are phased out or limited? guest: as long as rates don t go up and the overall tax burden doesn t go up, the tax reform is perfectly acceptable. that is a good idea. neil: okay. grover, thank you very much. he is a svengali. he is more popular than sesame street character. lizzy macdonald, interesting what he said that potential middle ground could be how you define a tax hike. allow extension but make sure you are setting it with the real spending cut. that might be a way out for republicans who feel boxed in. i don t know. you have been hearing from