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david, author of nonbeliever nation the rise of secular americans. first, clear up terminology, briefly. you throw a lot of words out there, secular, nonbelievers, atheists, who are you really talking about here? well, we re talking about nonreligious americans, s.e., people who probably don t go to church and are at least apathetic about their religious belief, not on board with all of the religious wait, are they believers? do they believe in god? most are not, although it s really worth noting that a lot of americans are rather apathetic about the question. they might be inclined to say, yes, i believe, but they live their lives in a naturalistic way without relying on supernatural answers. so in that way, we should understand with any categorization there s always some gray area. and i think we could say some secular americans might be inclined to say that they