Leading double lives, fake names, disguises, maybe a mustache and some glasses. but our next guest says today s spy versus spy is taking place across servers and databases. we ve all heard of wikileaks, but there are many, many other examples we ve never heard of, so says our next guest. american has had submarine technology, a new radar system, battle plans stolen by these new digital special agents and our specialist is a former senior council at the national security agency in our country, and says that america is supposed in ways you would not believe. joel brenner joins us, america the vulnerable. joel, on the one hand, people say, don t tell people we re exposed, what are you, crazy? and on the other hand, it s about time somebody said this so we can deal with the problem. what is the greatest vulnerability that we have, that we re not dealing with? we ve taken a system that was designed in the 80s for a small, trusted group of researchers in the governments and universities