ongoing. bryan llenas, thank you so much for that. i want to bring in a 34-year police veteran, retired with the new york city police department s longest standing hostage negotiation team commander. jack, thank you so much for joining us. you know, i just want to ask you, this is going on well over four hours right now, and our understanding is the negotiators are trying to talk to this person, trying to keep him talking, that s the goal, to keep everybody from being hurt unhurt, rather, as long as possible. and the question is over four hours, from your past experience, is there any way to get a sense from the timing of this how these conversations are developing, how they re going? well, ideally, the longer the incident goes on would want violence, the better chance without violence, the better chance of concluding successfully. emotions are starting to wine down at this point. the most dangerous time of a negotiation is usually the first