giuliani s statements and involvement in the ukraine policy, yes. okay. so when it genuinely became, you know, a concern for you, what did you do to either engage sondland and volker and perry, giuliani by the way, have you ever met rudy giuliani during these times relevant? not during the times relevant. mr. giuliani visited ukraine one time when i was there, i think in 2007 or 2008. that s the only time i ve met him. so you ve never had any communications with rudy giuliani as part of these irregular channel business that is correct. that is correct. okay. anyway, getting back to my question, did you try to engage brektbul or the secretary during this time period?
is mr. yermak, of what was required. yes. so ukraine finds out about the hold. you re not able to give them a reason for the hold. no one is able to give them a reason for the hold. they know the president wants these investigations, and then they re told in warsaw by ambassador sondland essentially you re not getting the aid unless you do these investigations. correct? that s correct. so, you know, you ve been asked how could there be conditioning if the ukrainians didn t know but the ukrainians were told by ambassador sondland, were they not? they were. they were. they didn t know near as i could tell, ukrainians did not know about the hold on the phone call on july 25th. that s true. but they were told as you said, mr. chairman on the 1st of september. and in fact, while they may not have known during the time of the call, they would find out, and when they did find out, they would know what the president wanted. correct? that s correct.
ambassador taylor would you like to respond to the question? mr. chairman i would like to say i m not here to do anything having to do with decide about impeachment. that is not what either of us are here for. this is your job. respore time on the clock for one minute but you may continue with 22 seconds. fine. mr. ambassador, i think everyone knows house democrats made up their mind to impeach one president. the question we ve just learned is whether or not they re prepared to impeach two, because to be clear, if house democrats impeach president trump for a quid pro quo involving military aid in have to call president zelensky a liar, impeach for for abusing power, they have to call president zelensky a liar to do it. if they impeach president trump for blackmail or extortion or making threats or demands they have to call president trump a lier to do it.
oligarch or self-dealing but 2016 and the bidens, was that your understanding? that was my understanding. and in fact, when you said your staff overheard this call between ambassador sondland and the president, in that call the president brings up investigation, does he not? he did. and immediately after the president gets off the phone with sondland, sondland is asked by your staff what does the president think about ukraine and his also is he s just interested in the bidens, am i right? he said he was more interested in the bidens. more interested in the bidens. no discussion of things that happened seven years ago. he was interested in the bidens? yes, sir. now, i think you also testified that ambassador
sondland s demand, the president s demand. and you wanted sondland to push b back, am i right? what i wanted so ambassador sondland was clearly able to have conversations with the president, and i thought that the pressure on another president, on president zelensky, was not a good idea from either presidents standpoint. i suggested to ambassador sondland since he frequently had conversation with the president could make that point. i think the way you expressed yourself is you wanted sondland to push back on president trump s demand, is dthat right? yes, sir. this is what the president wanted him to do and you wanted sondland to push back? i asked ambassador sondland to push back, that is correct. in fact, even after the aid was ultimately released, even