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Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:35:00

police officer, days after meeting ogrod, hall asked his wife to find information about barbara jean horn s murder. i went to the library in philadelphia and they have all of the newspapers, so i would give him copies. hall then use those articles to learn about the case, so that he could create a confession that sounded plausible. i had the notes that he made of the ogrod case. i have it all right in front of me, how he made it up. i found our library print out of a newspaper article but this barber jean horn case. hall also shared the fabricated story with another snitch. he gave the story to another inmate, like he got the story from walter, but walter and jay never communicated together. both snitches went to prosecutors claiming they each heard the same story from ogrod,

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:34:00

hall whose nickname was because he had heard more confessions than a priest. john hall was a criminal who had been used as a witness by prosecutors, often hicks receiving leniency in exchange for us testimony. he just had this knack for, where the da did not have enough evidence. and somehow, miraculously every time that happened, john produced a confession from that person and he would give them convictions. tom called hall s house, and his wife answered. and i thought, she is not going to talk to me, right? wrong, not only did she talk, she could not have been more blunt. i said, i m calling about john hall. and she said, yeah he lied in 20 or 30 cases. i said do you think he lied about ogrod and she said yeah. i said how do you know, and she said because i helped him. she said he had astonishing to seems down to a science. it didn t bother john at all. shortly before ogrod second trial, hallways moved the same cell block. at the time, he was facing a 50 year senten

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:44:00

five years later, he met tom lowenstein. he just had to dig and dig, he was relentless. in 2004, tom wrote a lengthy two part series for the philadelphia city paper, which included everything that he had learned about ogrod s case. a series of attorneys took on that case pro bono. we had the benefit of a good bit of journalistic work that have been done by tom lowenstein. but to build a strong argument for an appeal, with rollins and his team would have to do their own investigation. there is no physical evidence tying mr. ogrod to this crime. how he has presented himself throughout was i am innocent, i did not commit this crime. it took them seven years, but by 2011 they had amassed thousands of pages, undermining the prosecutor s case, including affidavits from snitch john hall and his wife phyllis, laying out the scheme against ogrod. how hopeful were you at that moment?

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 09:33:00

admission, just did not match up with the guy that you had been face to face with? yeah, the story that detectives tell about walt s confession is that they never interrupted him, he just point out is hard to him. he started crying saying officers give me a moment, you don t know how hard this is for me, i didn t mean to kill that little girl. for me that was the moment it clicked that they had not only dictated the story to walter, that they dictated a frame of mind that he is not capable of. but remember, prosecutors alleged that ogrod had only confessed to with detectives, but also a prison snitch. tom learned that the snitch was so prolific, he had a nickname. this snitch was named john

Transcripts for MSNBC Dateline 20240604 10:34:00

hall whose nickname was mom senior because he had heard more confessions than a. priest john hall was a criminal who had been used as a witness by prosecutors, often hicks receiving leniency in exchange for us testimony. he just had this knack for, where the da did not have enough evidence. and somehow, miraculously every time that happened, john produced a confession from that person and he would give them convictions. tom hall called house we, and his wife answered. and i thought, she is not going to talk to me, right? wrong, not only did she talk, she could not have been more blunt. i said, i m calling about john all. and she said, yeah he lied in 20 or 30 cases. i said do you think he lied about ogrod and she said yeah. i said how do you know, and she

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