fixed good school chairs and we re going to come in and decide who gets to sit in those chairs. people lost their minds. like, oh, you just took my kids from one of the good school seats and put them in one of the bad school seats. the research suggests it s the opposite of zero sum. there are gains from everyone put into desegregated, integrated environments, right? that s right. i think that doesn t get talked about nearly enough. it s always talked about that black and brown kids will benefit and seldom talked about the white kids benefit from integration as well. exactly. i think what s also important, it s not that black kids can t learn if they re only sitting with black kids. brown was about resources. separate has never been equal for a single day in this country. that continues to be the truth. yet the striking thing to me, sheryll about the conversation we have about educational equity, it s a pre-brown discussion. when you talk about closing the achievement gap, the
buses for as long as there have been school buses and it was once it became a tool for integration that we had a problem with it. kids ride buses every day. i do think it s clear that no one is willing to really do that anymore. so we do have to come up with other solutions. do you think part of this has to do with the thing that was so interesting to me in new york was what you see is in the absence of a plan to desegregate schools, in the absence of policy explicitly agitating for that, there s a million different ways that self-segregation will happen. that segregation will happen as a natural process. and i was so impressed with the folks at park slope collegiate who were being very intentional about trying to maintain an integrated space, but they re rolling a rock up hill because there s so many things happening in a social level in terms of how new york is divided, in terms of how our society works that pushes toward segregated schools. sheryll? this is what s unfortunate.
divide, that s the conversation we re having in this country about educational equity right now. it s unfortunate that not enough people have just acknowledged that integration is much cheaper than trying to turn around high poverty schools. only 1% of high poverty schools succeed. right. and meanwhile, integration is cheaper and it works for everyone, and by the way, only 42% of all americans today live in a middle class neighborhood. there are a lot of struggling people of all colors who want access to quality. yep. and that s part of the reason i m such a champion for magnate schools. yeah, it s a really good point, right? we think about resources, think about it in terms of zero sum. we have a solution the literature tells us that works quite well that s staring us in the face. nikole hannah-jones. sheryll cashin. coming up, preview of
thank you. thank you for having me. coming up, preview of another story we re bringing you this week on all in america. we went to chicago to find out why a murder there disappeared. that s next. ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.
people lost their minds. like, oh, you just took my kids from one of the good school seats and put them in one of the bad school seats. the research suggests it s the opposite of zero sum. there are gains from everyone put into desegregated, integrated environments, right? that s right. i think that doesn t get talked about nearly enough. it s always talked about that black and brown kids will benefit and seldom talked about the white kids benefit from integration as well. exactly. i think what s also important, it s not that black kids can t learn if they re only sitting with black kids. brown was about resources. separate has never been equal for a single day in this country. that continues to be the truth. yet the striking thing to me, sheryll about the conversation we have about educational equity, it s a pre-brown discussion. when you talk about closing the achievement gap, the terminology to use, that just presumes we will have largely segregated schools and we want to ma