group. but they didn t actually write the report. no. but i think it was a 11-3 vote. the larger point, we re talking about what senator feinstein called a stain on our national values and history. we re talking about big things here. it s time that people stop using euphemisms, this enhanced interrogation. we re talking about torture. er with talking about putting people in coffins with insects. talking about some of those awful things you were discussing with the senator and karl rove. this is not good. there s no way we should be saying it s partisan president fact is it s based on 6 million pages of cia documents. these are cia documents. live feeds, as you heard, that are being reviewed as to what took place. then you have people destroying tapes, trying to break into hack into the senate intelligence committee files to prevent this from being fully
to pass a $1.1 trillion spending bill funding the federal government through next september. the move avoids a government shutdown and we ll discuss it with our panel later in the program. first, that bombshell senate report on the interrogation tacticings used by the cia after 9/11 has led to a number of questions about how far we should go to keep america safe. joining us to debate this, karl rove, one of george w. bush s top advisers in the white house and senator sheldon whitehouse, a former member of the intelligence committee who was involved in preparing the report. gentlemen, welcome back to fox news sunday. thank you, chris. i want to focus on three central questions today first of all, was it torture.
and washington, d.c. doesn t care. they put together one of the worst pieces of legislation, a $1.1 trillion that has a carveout for blue cross, blue shield, carveout for wall street, has something, it provides they say this isn t a town that s broken. i think that what ted cruz articulated was a desire to have an honest conversation about the president s lawless policy of handing out 5 million worker permits. he exercised his prerogative as a senator to exercise that debate and that s a good thing. let me bring in george. you like elizabeth warren have lit upon the obvious with a sense of profound discovery. that is, this is how big government gets big, stays big and operates. let s not be scandalized by this because this is you said this is not a bunch of statesmen getting together in a
department memo that says specific intent to inflict severe pain is a key element for it being seen as torture? if you re involved in the kind of activity described in this report, it would be hard not to for a jury not to conclude that you had that specific intent if you were applying those techniques and seeing what the consequences and effects were on those individuals. carl? every torture wants information, perhaps, or propaganda, so the fact there s ulterior motive doesn t take away specific intent. waterboarding that was done in each of the instances that the senator talked about was designed to basically drown the person with water in their lunging. this was specifically designed not to. second of all, the question of pain and suffering versus fear and panic. this was designed to instigate fear and panic.
waterboarding, slapping, smashing against walls these were carefully designed with an idea with the principles in mind of our statutory obligations and international commitments. the principle tests were, do they involve severe pain or suffering? do they involve severe and prolonged pain or suffering. as a result these procedures were carefully designed so they would not pass those barriers. waterboarding, unlike world war ii where japanese attempted to drown people by basically pouring water in their mouths, here the feet were elevate sod there s little or no chance of fluid getting into the lungs and very careful standards set in place so these would help break the resistance of the detainees without placing their life in danger. let me pick up on that for you, senator whitehouse, because the 2002 justice department memo that was the basis for this