and also discharging patients from hospital earlier is one possibility, even if that leads to increased risk. now the most controversial has been immediately knocked down by the scottish government, the first minister, nicola sturgeon, telling us that the founding principles of the nhs are not up for discussion, and indeed, the prime minister echoing those points in his speech this morning, as well. so what we have here is perhaps an indication from within the nhs that there is a very serious crisis and that something significant does need to change, even if the politicians say it won t be as significant as completely abandoning the founding principles of the nhs. dave west, deputy editor at the health service journal, joins me now. thanks for being with us, how significant is it that these officials, and they were officials,
actually talking about encouraging people to use private care instead if they ve got the means. although the reality is if they ve got the means. although the reality is that if they ve got the means. although the reality is that ever if they ve got the means. although the reality is that ever since - if they ve got the means. although the reality is that ever since the i the reality is that ever since the nhs was founded, there have been things like prescription charges the founder of the nhs resigned in the founder of the nhs resigned in the 1950s because there were charges for eye care industry, and so on. and more recently there s been plenty of evidence in parts of the uk, they are virtually impossible to access, like nhs dentistry care, so those people are forced to use private health care. at the minute england is focusing on adjusting the age and access to free prescriptions. so there are aspects of that, but they have been fairly closely guarded over the decades and ch
nhs leaders in scotland discuss the idea of wealthier patients paying for treatment as the health service battles huge backlogs. coming up in sportsday in the next 15 minutes on the bbc news channel: they are off the pace in the scottish premiership, and have had a terrible champions league campaign, and giovanni van bronkhorst has paid the price he s been sacked by rangers. an earthquake has struck the main indonesian island of java, leaving at least 162 people dead and hundreds injured. buildings have been reduced to rubble and rescuers are frantically trying to find survivors. the 5.6 magnitude quake struck cianjur town in west java. the area where the quake struck is densely populated and prone to landslides. our south east asia correspondent jonathan head reports.
up for debate. but do nhs bosses here have confidence in ministers and especially in the health secretary hamza yusuf, visiting this hospital in fife today? the minutes of the meeting also highlighted concern that some scottish government suggestions are divorced from reality because of an absence of clinical input. and they talk about a disconnect between the pressure felt by clinicians on the one hand, and the message from ministers on the other. and this health expert says it is notjust the nhs in scotland which is struggling. all across the uk i think the nhs is under really visible strain at the moment. difficulties in accessing care, difficulties with finance, difficulty in attracting staff and giving them good enough terms and conditions that they stay. i think these conversations were in scotland, i do not know the details, but people are thinking more about radical options.
what he called illegal immigration. this is more of the prime minister s attempt to restore some stability after the turbulence, but the question is about how to achieve growth that a seed has seemed so elusive. growth that a seed has seemed so elusive. ., , growth that a seed has seemed so elusive. ., . nhs leaders in scotland have discussed a radical plan that would make wealthy people pay for health service treatment. it would mean abandoning the founding principles of the nhs that make it free at the point of delivery. here s our scotland editor james cook in glasgow. this is a minute of a meeting held by nhs chief executives in september and in it, they appear to have discussed all sorts of ideas for the reform of the nhs most controversially, of course, that suggestion there could be a two tier service where those who can afford to go private. but also plenty of other ideas apparently on the table, including cutting the funding of new drugs, perhaps restricting