it within the ukraine, there s lots of consequences. it s not going to include sending u.s. troops in there. the american people are not there. we don t need to be there. we have some consequences. if indeed he goes in, there s a real push to enact the swift sanctions on him. that s complicated. a little pain for us involved in that. it would bring russia to its knees very quickly. i am going to push for that. i know our european allies have indicated they re not red hot about doing that but it needs to be done. charles: the swift banking system. whether it s banking, oil, heating and gas, it gets more complicated. senator risch, thanks very much. we ll be watching your progress. charles: is china preparing an invasion of their own? mike mccaul says they may make a
consequences for russia if it invades ukraine, and in some cases for what it has already done. so what i would say is what we are devising, building upon the legislation that both senator risch wrote independently and i wrote, which i call the mother of all sanctions, is to include a variety of elements, massive sanctions against the most significant banks, crippling to their economy, meaningful in terms of consequences to their accounts and pensions, more lethal assistance to ukraine, the ability to deal with russia s sovereign debt, to look at sectoral elements of russia s economy which is largely an extracting economy on energy, to sanction its sovereign debt. these are sanctions beyond any that we have ever levied before, and i think that sends a very clear message. senator risch, how do you get from the 1 yard line into the end zone, to keep the metaphor that the chairman just talked about?
terms of consequences to their accounts and pensions, more lethal assistance to ukraine, the ability to deal with russia s sovereign debt, to look at sectoral elements of russia s economy which is largely an extracting economy on energy, to sanction its sovereign debt. these are sanctions beyond any that we have ever levied before, and i think that sends a very clear message. senator risch, how do you get from the 1 yard line into the end zone, to keep the metaphor that the chairman just talked about? specifically, if i may, given the fact that you and other republicans, you want the sanctions to take effect now. the biden administration, they want to wait until after any invasion. they say that s their best deterrent. how are you going to compromise on that? first of all, i think bob s
tomorrow that we re going to be moving forward, and i know bob shares that hope, also. what are you going to do about the timing of the sanctions? will you say that they will not go into effect until after an invasion if that happens? or will you do it preemptively? that s a work in progress. but i can describe where we ve come together on that, and i think it s a combination of both. bob, would you agree with that? i agree with senator risch. look, there are some sanctions that really could take place up front because of what russia has already done, cyberattacks on ukraine, false flag operations, the efforts to undermine the ukrainian government internally. those are just some examples of sanctions that could take place now. but then the devastating sanctions that ultimately would crush russia s economy, and the continuing lethal aid we are
a difficult position. clearly he must be preparing for the possibility of invasion or reinvasion since russia did that already and in the past with crimea and with regular forces in eastern ukraine. at the same time he wants to create a semblance of calm as relates to his economy which is a challenge for him as well. so i understand that. there s a reason president biden has sent more aid to ukraine, military aid, lethal aid since 2014, $650 million. it s because you have 130,000 russian troops there surrounding three different parts of russia s borders, and you have to take seriously that the potential for an invasion is real. it s getting the ukrainians to be prepared and give them the wherewithal to defend themselves, at the same time understanding the economic needs they have. senator risch, you said russia is just setting up a