i also want to go back to something, nicolle, if we can about the impact of the defamation verdict here. because without down-playing that verdict there s something else that happened here that i think is remarkable. the damages on the sexual assault claim themselves were $2 million, and that s not because as a result of the sexual assault she suffered reputational damage, right? that s not about the truth or falsity about any statement. that s just from the assault itself. and this is a jury, again, consistent of six men, three women, at least one of whom had a rather bizarre and not particularly carroll favorerable media diet of listening to tim poole. they decided she was damaged to the tune of $2 million because the assault resulted in any number of loss of companionship, mental anguish, emotional distress, fear. that shows a real evolution not just in how we use defamation claims to address larger
so the first sort of complaint has to do with actual rape, which involves sexual penetration. the second has to do with sexual assault, which doesn t go that far. it doesn t require it doesn t include penetration. and so what the jury did is separated out between those things, those first and the second. to my mind what it suggests is that the jury was very careful and was looking for corroboration of e. jean carroll. that s pretty typical of a jury they look to see, we think this person is telling truth but if there s any kraubication you think what the other two victims testified about was also about sexual assault. what the defendant here donald trump admitted and confessed to in the access hollywood tape was sexual assault, that you can grab people by the genitals,
that maligned e. jean carroll s reputation for tell the truth, suggested that she herself was a liar. this is a case that e. jean carroll has proven that donald trump lied by calling her a liar. it s sort of a big lie sandwich of a case, but it all rises and falls on the truth of the underlying statement, which is this question of the sexual assault, and because this jury has concluded that there was a sexual assault, it s a much easier to get to a place where the knowing falsity can be shown. mary, what are your sort of thoughts and questions as we potentially head down the scenario of the path that lisa outlines? so you know, i think that will really be up to e. jean carroll whether she wants to go through another trial. you know, we were talking earlier about the kind of trauma that victims of sexual abuse, and again, it wasn t just e. jean carroll but two other women. the trauma and retraumatizing that getting on the stand puts
part of his obstruction prong, and there are footnotes in the obstruction volume 2 of the mueller report. he defames through the same methods, and i wonder if you think there are conversations going on with other individuals or businesses or people who think they ve been defamed by donald trump. i mean almost certainly there are. one of the things that i think is particularly interesting anatizing to what folks were just saying is that libel cases are at best a credibility contest. they are asking a court, asking the jurors on a court to say who they believe were telling the truth and who they believe was lying. and we saw e. jean carroll s lawyers really leaning into this reputation for falsehood in building not just the sexual assault case but particularly in building this defamation case. at one point in closing
realtime and uncomplaining and she never achieves professional successp again, she never finds personal happiness, and mike ferarra stood up and said that s ridiculous. when people are grieving and they move on we didn t say they didn t love that person at all, we don t think they loved that person any less. we understand both those things can be true and the same is true of rape victims. the truth can be weird and only fiction neat and tidy. and what you saw in this verdict what i think is total repudiation of that trope, all the reasons to disbelieve e. jean carroll, this jury is saying yes, we re not buying that. she doesn t remember the date, doesn t remember the year. it took over 20 years to talk about it at all and maybe even longer to process what she s experiencing is trauma and nonetheless we believe her. we believe she s sexually