Confirmation hearing extraordinarily apt its a rather prescient dear of the International Security environment of the ninetys but it really comes down to that one phrase where he says was slain a large dragon talking about the soviet union well now we find ourselves in a jungle still with a broader and broader for the snakes and in many ways the dragon was easier to keep track of and i think what hes trying to say here is that weak states failing states and nonstate actors are the principal threat of the 99. 00 is a. Minute or until it is the total call and. Its also we have categorizing and its essentially putting legitimate state actors like russia or china into the same group as nonstate actors like isis and object terrorist groups isnt just al just a little bit to give this to folks contrary i mean if you are not with asio or against that. So actually i think hes making the opposite point what hes saying is there are 2 different characters that are very different from each other th
Or in your state adversaries russia china perhaps and then there are a completely different category which is the nonstate actors what he calls the snake and my argument in the book is that weve spent basically 20 years focusing on snakes on only particularly one snake International Islamic extremism and the related terrorism and i think that the world that rules he describes in 993. 00 was an accurate description for maybe 10 years but it is out of date now and we now harness if you like maladapted to the modern environment its interesting at the same because i had a chance to interview mr holmes a few years back that on the u. S. Russia relationship actually struck me as somebody that very. Well here and. He was speaking about russia as a School Principal to talk about hes behaving student and i thinking even viewed the world as a dram that the United States. Needs the time has long gone dont you think that batman of war no longer thinks the world that we all. So i actually talk abou
A member of the u. S. Led International Rules based order established by the u. S. And as i point out in the book for a lot of russians experiencing Shock Therapy and privatization and auburn economists coming in response to a lot of mockery c. E. At the west Foreign Policy i think thats also an immediate matter yeah i think a lot of people saw that as sort of terminate 2nd class status in a us led system and i think its pretty clear that russia in particular has been pushing back on that. Assumptions that a lot of us policy makers i wouldnt actually put will see at the top of the list there the person. Actually on albright who was the secretary of state for president clinton she made the comments in 99 when she said look if we have to use force if that is where the United States we stand tall we see further. And everybody else and sort of we know whats whats good for everybody well actually can see the number of cases i think they have gotten my next question if the well is populated
The time and i begin the book at the end of the cold war and as i was casting around for a way to frame whats happened since then i found jim moses comments in his confirmation hearing extraordinarily apt its a rather prescient deer of the International Security environment of the ninetys but it really comes down to that one phrase where he says we slain a large dragon talking about this so he but now we find ourselves in a jungle still with a broader and broader for the snakes and in many ways the dragon was easier to keep track of and i think what hes trying to say here is that weak states failing states and nonstate actors are the principal threat of the 99 is a. Minute or until it is the total call and. Its also we have categorizing and its essentially putting legitimate state actors like russia or china into the same group as nonstate actors like isis that terror groups isnt just out just a little bit to give this a poke contrary if you are not we last year against that. So actual
In the United States because you would need an American Embassy for that well apparently they were wrong quick tribalist the riots and even the seizure of government buildings containing our americas foes taking being democratic uprising in the worlds most celebrated democracy to discuss and im now joined by David Kilcullen perhaps our own international and Political Studies at the university of New South Wales and the author of dry runs. How the rats learn to buy it was called and great to talk to you congratulations on your latest book and you for having me its great to be here now i know that its not your original idea to refer its you adversaries as rap tiles and i am. Wrong. Bill clintons 1st cia director but since you build a narrative around it i assume youre blinded snooty what are you still whining about it for you. I think that so just to say this book is a book about military adaptation and its about how different players adapted over time and i begin the book at the end of