even, you know, disabling engines, leaving people at sea. and so we don t know exactly what happened with this boat. i know there are conflicting reports. but one of the reports said that potentially the people on board, when they found out it was greek authorities, had said, no, they wanted to continue to italy. they had refused help. and i mean i can see why that might have happened because of the reputation of the greek authorities, that actually people would think it was more dangerous to agree to be technically helped by them. that actually the results might be more dangerous than the situation they were in even. sally, as the weather gets warmer, do we expect more boats to keep coming? and what ultimately determines who deserves to be in europe? yeah. i mean that s a big question. yeah, i think boats are going to continue to come all the time, and who deserves to be there?
a lot of the people i speak to, once they can get on european territory, they can claim a right to stay there. you know, they can claim international protection. but the problem is that they can t claim that from abroad. they have to get onto european territory. then they ll be recognized as refugees. and, yeah, i mean that s kind of maybe a broader debate. but at the moment, without those safe and legal routes, this is the only way, the only recourse that people have to do that. sally hayden, thank you so much. greatly appreciate you coming on. thank you. the u.s. secretary of state took off from washington a few hours ago to begin his long-delayed trip to china, where he will try to ease rising tensions between the two countries. antony blinken says he will hold talks on a range of issues, including the safety of three americans who washington says have been wrongfully detained in china. this has been an ongoing
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