when tests were available. and he said this followed clinical advice and he said he followed the clinical advice throughout. and he said the clinical advice at that time, at the early stages of the pandemic, was that a test on anybody who did not have symptoms could return a false negative. he was talking as well about any blindspots, if you like, in the policy in those early stages and he said, yes, there was a need for a rabidly scalable testing response and he said that had not been, it was not part of the uk s pandemic planning at that point, he said the nhs response, the scientific response was very strong but he said there wasn t in terms of their pandemic planning, a rabidly scalable testing response. i think we can now listen back to a clip