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manipulatable, but to see them as human beings much like yourself and to open your eyes to that. host: as individuals. guest: as individuals and as members of the community both, and that s one of the tensions of teaching right there, if you re teaching third grade and you have 25 kids, you have a responsibility to see each one as the one and only, indupe lick bl, no one else will ever trod the earth quite this way, and that s essential. on the other hand, they re members of a community and you have to figure out how to help them learn to live together, so it s both. host: throughout your books on teaching and on being an educator, you always social justice seems to be a theme throughout all those books. in fact, one of your books is called teaching for social justice what do you mean by that 1234. it s taken on the tone of something special, but what i mean is very simple which is that teaching in a democracy, at least theoretically, is teaching quite a different
now, in depth with bill ayers. host: bill ayers, in your book, to teach, you talk about teachers having a moral choice. what is that moral choice? guest: i think that teaching is profoundly ethical work, and the moral choice is to take the side of the students, to choose to see them as three dimensional creatures with hearts and minds and spirits that have to be both nourished and challenged, and to see yourself as somebody who is in the position of shepherding the choices of others, and that gives you a profound, i think, ethical responsibility. so part of it is to see the students whole, to see them as human beings not as interchangeable cogs in a machines, manipulatable, but to see them as human beings much like yourself and to open your eyes to that. host: as individuals? guest: as individuals and members of a community both, and that s one of the techs of teaching right there tensions of teaching right there. if you have 25 kids, you have a responsibility t