appear to believe that russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps somehow for some reason ukraine did. this is fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the russian security services themselves. thomas ray joins us now, a professor at john hopkins and considered the authority on rush disinformation and also the author of the forthcoming book active measures, the secret history of disinformation and political warfare. great to have you with us. does this conspiracy theory about ukraine meddling in our 2016 elections have russia written all over it? the story there is quite treacherous and complicated. we have to be very precise here. the story has two components. did ukraine somehow have a role in the 2016 election campaign,