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Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:36:00

in charge of demobilisation and the reintegration of former combatants, and later, as an academic. but not only in my personal case, as someone who opposed 0rtega, those who opposed 0rtega from the platform ofjournalism, those who are student activists, human rights activists, everyone who wants to be outspoken against the 0rtega regime is persecuted and put into prison. you had a choice to make when they told you you could be released, because i believe they made it plain to you that release would involve immediate removal from nicaragua. you would be put on a plane and taken to the united states. now, as i understand it, some fellow prisoners of yours, other political prisoners, they chose not to do that deal. they refused and they are in prison to this day, including high profile prisoners like the catholic bishop, rolando alvarez. he wanted to stay. why did you decide that you were prepared

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:47:00

are so poor and so desperate. hundreds of thousands of them every year are trying to escape the country, whether to costa rica or through guatemala and mexico, to try to reach the united states. are you proposing that in that context, you want to see tougher economic sanctions put on ortega and his regime? economic sanctions, targeted sanctions against the 0rtega inner circle because people in nicaragua is poor precisely because there s a corrupt regime. i understand. and i ve also been very careful in not speaking about economic i understand. and i ve also been very careful in not speaking about economic actions or sanctions that will hurt the poor. i think that that s very important to emphasize. but they do have the poor, mr maradiaga. look, we have to look at the reality. i mean, the united states last year, in response to what they saw as egregious abuses by the 0rtega regime, put new sanctions on the gold mining industry in nicaragua. but if you look at the nicaraguan economy,

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:52:00

i think they are, because no one can call a country their own if they cannot pursue their dreams, if they cannot be free, if they cannot pursue an education for their children, and they re doing it because they don t have any other options. however, i don t think that the world can solve our own problems. we nicaraguans have to focus on trying to build a new country, and there are some people that take great personal challenges. i m only one of many, many examples. many other nicaraguans has gone through terrible things to face 0rtega. but those who do not have a chance, they only have exile as a chance. and that s why we need to care, because we can only solve this humanitarian crisis, not only a political one, but a humanitarian crisis by involving the international community in finding a solution. right. but interestingly, you re now sitting in the united states and you will be well aware that

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:46:00

coming from washington. i would agree with you on that regard. we need much more international pressure and in the case of nicaragua has been very hard. nicaragua doesn t have a petroleum, oil. we don t have geopolitical importance to the level of venezuela, for example. so i ve been working very hard in explaining even before that in books, for example, that we published back in 2009, explaining 0rtega s dangerous relationship with iran, with russia, with china. and i think that little by little that is being taken into account, not at the speed that we wanted, but we hope that this is a new phase of international diplomacy against the 0rtega regime that would allow us to isolate completely that police state. but to be clear, when you talk about isolation, i always wonder how far you really think you want the international community to go? nicaragua is the second poorest country in the western hemisphere, second only to haiti. your people in nicaragua

Transcripts for BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20240604 00:44:00

and yet if one looks at the international reaction to what 0rtega has done, as you say, with the stripping of the citizenship, notjust of the 222 prisoners released, but also another 90 activists who have since had their citizenship taken away from them the latin american leaderships in countries like mexico, colombia, argentina, brazil have been very quiet, haven t they? have you noticed? i have noticed that, but i have a different perspective. i think that for the very first time in decades, and i can say that myself, as someone who testified in front of the un security council in geneva, at the human rights council as well, and travel latin america, five to seven years ago, it was very hard to mobilize certain people who had previous sympathies to the sandinista revolution. that is not the case any more. it s very clear that the 0rtega of today has nothing to do

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