Perceptions of ukraine to the dismay of some of his advisers. Quoting now from the Washington Post, quote, over time, you just see a wearing down of defenses, a former white house official said, describing the struggle to contest the influence of giuliani, putin, and orban. And just pause a minute to consider the implications. The leader of the one country that no president before this one has fully trusted was telling this president not to trust ukraine, a country that russia seeks to dominate. Joining us now is john hudson, who shares a byline on the story. John, what exactly happened in these conversations between President Trump, putin, and orban . And i understand at least one of the conversations with orban was face to face in the white house, and there wasnt anyone else present. Is that right . Thats right. U. S. Officials described to the post an alarming sort of evolution in President Trumps view of zelensky and ukrainian officials in general. Now, it started out a little bit