cetera. there are some quotes that have appeared in which senator fine stein seems to be important, do it right. these are things we wouldn t want to do. but the country is in a crisis. that s what many people are quoted at the time having told cia briefers that came to see them. it s important what life felt like for all of us in 2002, 2003. so, you know, it s typically the case that congress wants this, it s delling with oversight, looks at every question except congress s own role. yes. they have kind of exempted themselves from supervision, from criticism. that s a mistake. and this report is an especially daming example of that, to know what congress didn t do, how congress could have helped do a better job of policing us along the way, it would have been essential. they drop that completely. and that s a mistake. david, thank you. richard engel thank you very
will? you have a covert action? general hayden, good to talk to you. hey, richard, hi, good to see you again. when does dianne feinstein know about this? did she know in detail years ago and did she express the same kind of outrage and opposition then that she is expressing now? i believe the first time was december of 2006. i believe she was on the committee then. but she had not been a part of a gang of four who had been thoroughly briefed on the program since its inception. i pay have the specifics wrong there, at least if 2006 and certainly in 2007 that s the testimony that she made multiple references to yesterday. keep in mind the scenario here, guys. i become the director in may of 2006. i m the one who goes down in the white house and says, we need to put this program on a broader political footing. we need to bring in all members
our money to do these terrible things? yeah. so before we get to richard engel, carole lee, he s john mccain reacting. take a look. i know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad tan good intelligence. i think it s an insult to the many intelligence officers who have acquired good intelligence without hurting oral degrading prisoners to assert. we can t win this war without such methods. yes, we krks and we will. i have often said and will always maintain that this question isn t about our enemies. it s about us. its about who we were. who we are. and who we aspire to be. a lot of questions, but i want to ask you, richard, let s pair it down to one of the key ones here. is this what we are looking at in these documents, torture and murder or tactics? i think there was a torture
whether or not someone should be prosecuted. they are deflecting to the justice department on that. the sect e second is whether these tactics were effective. right. and they re saying, they re also avoiding that question and in doing that, they re trying to cut through the debate of the infighting that s happening and just stick to one line. the question is whether or not that s a sustainable approach. richard. i think it s also a porl question we have to ask. this was a morally fraug program. that was a program. i think it s important to understand that. right now we have a morally fraught program called the gun program, including signature strikes. i m not sure what everyone know what is they are. signature strikes mean you kill people from above with a drone. you don t know who they are. you know how they behave. you try and avoid it. yes, there is collateral damage. it means if someone is driving around in tribal areas in
briefings if 2002 and 2009. rockefeller says the briefings he received offered little or no insight into the agency s programs. richard eng em. well, i think that s one of the parts of this, that is not really debatable. this was a program. it was a despicable program. it s a program that when you read about, you are sickened to hear about this. and the sexual humiliation of these people and when you debate whether it worked or whether it didn t work, but to have a lot of politicians now playing babe in the woods, i think is a dangerous process here. this was a program that went on for about seven years. it was briefed. people were reprimanded because of the program. it had a long chain of documents with it. the budget was growing at the time. the president was aware, when exactly was aware is somewhat in