styles and the way in which trump has helped import the kind of chaotic politics that putin thrived on. and so, you re right, simply removing donald ump from the white house hasn t changed that, because what s happened is, putin s style of politics has infected the american body politic and we re left to deal with that and you know, fiona hill basically describes our polarization, by the way, as a serious national security issue. i mean, she makes that point very, very explicitly, that that is now the national security is the polarization, that the enemy is n with. i mean, charlie, i want to address both your points because on the first, i agree, and we ll make a graphic and put up on the list of all the people it woul have been fantastic to hear from and speaking of rac stephanie grisham goes there, all the way there. but i think on the question
is, you know, i m glad we re learning confirmation of things that we actually already knew, but i continue to be frustrated by all the people who were in the room who did not speak out when it really mattered. stephanie grisham being one. you know, you talk about john bolton, mick mulvaney, general mattis, all these folks who knew what donald trump was and how he was behaving and yet chose not to share that with the american people before the election. but having said that, fiona hill s essay is really important and the points she makes, i think, is not just that donald trump had this weird man crush on vladimir putin, but he also shared his world view. they actually shared this illiberal contempt for democratic norms and she describes the way that america and russia have kind of coalesced, how there s been a convergence of our political
personally, praically the only thing trump said to me during my time in the administrationas to ask in reference to putin, am i going to like him? before i could answer, the other officials in the room got up to leave and the presidens attention shifted. such is life as a female advisor in the trump white house. then there s stephanie grisham, a senior official in the administration who makes clear in her new book that attempts to look tough on russia were all an act, reflecting on a bilateral meeting in osaka back in 2019, grisham writes this, quote, with l the talk of sanctio agains russia for intfering in the 2016 electi and for rious man rhts uses, ump td putin,okay, i m gog toct a lite touer with y for aew minutes but it s forhe cameras and after they leave, we ll tal you understand. fiona hill was actually present for that meeting and griam describes it this way. quote, as the meeting began, hill leaned over and asked me if i had noticed putin s translator, who was a very attrac
wonderful figure. she proceeded to tell me that she suspected the woman had been selected by putin specifically to distract our president. joining our conversation is charlie sykes, editor at large for the bulwark. first, your reaction to what we re hearing from fiona hill and stephanie grisham. getting a little ry in the 5:00 hour, nole. it s cocktail hour somewhere. hey, exactly. it s happy hour. i think with respect to the national security implications, i think this just is more evidence, as if any were needed, that the trump administration, but donald trump in particular, was extraordinarily weak in the face of putin s aggression. trump undermined our allies in nato. he slobbered all over vladimir putin. he publicly said in helsinki that he believed putin s descriptions of election