say there was an attempt to collude with the russian government. you re doing the very thing that a lot of people say oh, back up. that s exactly why bob mueller, his investigation neil: leave it at that then. let bob we ll see what congress decides to do with that information. neil: sarah, what do you think? democrats do risk putting themselves in a boy who cried wolf situation with this overwrought criticism to everything that comes out of the trump white house. it erodes their credibility to criticize the legitimate problems with the trump administration. that s what you ve seen with the donald trump jr. e-mails. this looks bad. no spinning it. democrats have alluded to treason, they have cried impeachment. they have embraced the pop culture images in violence. when a legitimate situation arises, voters are tuning out.
the problem. how do we address it adds pras m pragmatic matter. it s counterproductive, it s harmful. it diverts, resources, et cetera. kai, you made the point if you start that way you condition seed the point that people being arrested are criminals and the point is they are not criminals, right? the consensual bed rock of this is to radically reor writ ent people. i want to weigh in on the side of kai briefly here. i think stigma is a part of this. i even have it in myself. i think of someone using cocaine very differently than i do of someone drinking. i just do, right? part of that is because of what s illegal and what s legal. part of it is because of socially, right, who in my network, i go home and have a glass of bourbon like i did last night, right? part of it is also pop culture images, right? the hardest bridge to cross and i want to play this from steve jobs because i thought this was such an amazing moment. we re talking about