president pence. there are state legislators across the country who are standing with the president to stop this voter fraud from happening under their watch. we want to know when there s a resolution in the house to appoint electors for trump if the president can count on you to join in support. so we re at this point where these almost weekly news dumps are occurring and it s becoming more and more clearer just how vulnerable american democracy is. in just a minute i ll speak to the michigan secretary of state josilyne benson about all of this, the top election official in a state where so much of trump and his allies efforts were focused in overturning 2020 but first joined by philip bumpf. this fake elector scheme that rudy giuliani was reportedly running for trump is now as we understand it being investigated by both the jr. 6th select
governor of each state and that package together is the thing that then gets transmitted to washington and count the on january 6th so i think the idea here is that there are going to be potential criminal charges focusing on forging an alternate slate that didn t represent the vote of people in those states, michigan, new mexico or wherever it happens to be and instead are moving forward with this, you know, this document that purports to be something that doesn t actually capture what the voters want. is it something prosecutable? i ll defer to the experts on that. that s not my area of expertise. fair enough. but what s interesting in this, philip, the plan involved using these electors that the campaign themselves had convened in order to give vice president a pretext vice president mike pence at the time a pretext for rejecting biden s victory on january 6th. we know he did not go along with it because of what we saw play out on that day but do we know any details, any thinkin
almost crumbles. okay, we don t need to fix the wall because when we drove a truck into it didn t break. it s sort of baffling that congress doesn t come together and say, let s fix this really, really poorly worded legislation so that we don t have our elections stolen. yeah, completely agree with you on that front. let me switch gears really quickly, philip, and talk about this draft executive order that politico reported on this week. it cites two classified document, national security presidential memorandas 13 and 21 and according to politico the existence of the first one was already public but it s the second one that had never been reported on publicly before. what can you tell us about that? i mean, what does it say that this was included this this executive order, this possible attempt to get the military to seize voting machines and then have a special counsel declare to probe the 2020 elections?
philip bump, thanks. joining us is michigan secretary of state josilyne benson. madam secretary, thank you so much for joining us. let me pick up on what philip was talking there. your reaction if i can ask about seeing an election mistake in michigan, one that you issued a statement on being used in a draft executive order that would have resulted had it been implemented in the military taking over of our election systems. thanks for having me. i think this is a critical conversation as we seek not just accountability for those that did try to block the results and overturn a presidential election but make sure it doesn t happen again. with interim county and other issues in michigan underscores the fact that there was not and never had been evidence of widespread fraud or any wrongdoing with our elections. our election was safe, secure and an accurate reflection of the will of the people and the very fact that that county or