i don t give a [ bleep ] what comes out on you or john. even that poor damn dumb john mitchell. there is going to be a total pardon. don t don t even say that. you know it. you know it and i know it. nope. don t say it. forget you ever heard it. no, i it has to be done, bob. so, that s may 1973. what i mean to say is this. talking in the confidence of this room, i don t give a bleep what comes out on you or john ehrlichman. even that poor damn dumb john mitchell. there s going to be a total pardon. haldeman, don t, don t, don t even say that. nixon, you know it, you know it and i know it. haldeman says no, don t say it. then nixon says forget you ever heard it. no, i it has to be done, bob. that s may 1973. it turns out that tape is red hot legal trouble for the president of the united states. it s may 1973.
here. wonderful to see you, not just on tv. yes end exactly. we ve talked before about presidents pardon power, which is very broad in the black letter of the constitution, but looking back at watergate, and what nixon got in trouble for, it struck me that nixon was going to get in trouble and knew that he was going to get in trouble and people around him knew he was going to get in trouble for dangling pardons to people who were in trouble during watergate. is that true? oh, absolutely. and i think you re absolutely right in saying that might have been another article of impeachment. and that goes, as so many things in our system do, all the way back to james madison, who said that a pardon, the president can use the pardon, it s an absolute power, but if the president abuses that power, that could be an imetchmepeachable offense.
today the president of the united states inexplicably pardoned a right-wing pundit who had been convicted on campaign finance felonies by prosecutors in the southern district of new york. the same prosecutors who are now pursuing this case against his personal attorney. now, the. in question had never applied for a pardon under justice department pardon guidelines he was not even eligible to put his name into the well established pardon process at justice. this is a guy who pled guilty, who admitted he did it, who said he was sorry. he apparently used his mistress and somebody who worked for him to surreptitiously funnel an illegally large campaign donation to someone who he had worked on a conservative publication with. somebody who was running for office. but yesterday we found out that the prosecution of the president s long-time lawyer is going ahead in the southern district of new york. today the president randomly issued a full pardon to this guy who was convicted by prosecutor
donald trump, one of the first things that new president will do is i m going to do all sorts of things the opposite of how trump did them, and one of them is if i give a pardon it s going to go through this process in the justice department that so many modern presidents have used. one thing that we re learning in the last year and a half is how much of our democracy really does depend on tradition and also the respect of a president for those traditions and how much they have to do with preserving the system. donald trump has shown once again he has no such respect. and how radically things can change, how fast, when all you do is you just drop out that one constraint. nbc presidential historian michael beschloss, great to have you here, my friend. wonderful to see you. we ll be right back. stay with us. but with scotts turf builder weed & feed, bill has nothing to worry about. it kills weeds and greens grass, guaranteed. this is a scotts yard.
know why. that tape was never produced to the watergate committees in congress who proceeded with impeachment proceedings against nixon. for some reason, i think a logistical reason, i don t know. for some reason that particular tape where he dangles the pardon didn t come out until years later, whereupon sam dash, who was the chief counsel to the senate watergate committee, said had the watergate committee received that particular tape during their investigation, had that specific tape come out, i ll quote you from the new york times, if known to the committee at the time, that would have justified a separate article of impeachment all by itself. sam dash marked to the new york times when that tape finally came out years later. even haldeman was trying to shut him up. they would have impeached him just for the discussion of that pardon. under the constitution presidents obviously can pardon