outlying theory, and doj has a more mainstream theory that one of the things you re going to look at is what underlying criminal conduct is there that the president may have endeavored to obstruct. i think that s the exact reason why we didn t have an interview of the president, because mueller couldn t satisfy the standard of need for this evidence and no other way of getting it. because there was no evidence that they needed with respect to an underlying crime. so it was just going to be what was the president thinking. and you just don t get that in the ordinary criminal case. so i think here what you have is a difference of opinion between doj and the special counsel s office, and to bob mueller s credit, he said, look, i m going to be an institutionalist. i m going to let you guys at the doj apply standard obstruction of justice analysis rather than my further-reaching standard of obstruction theory, and that s how we ended up. and so mueller is a little bit