along with analysts chuck rosenberg and lisa rubin. what can we expect based on arguments put forward in advance by both sides? reporter: to set the scene, because donald trump is here in person the security has really been ramped up. there s a much greater police presence. in terms of in the courtroom, this is a long shot for donald trump, this idea that a former president can t be prosecuted for any acts whited while serving in offense, it s belied by the fact that gerald ford pardoned richard nixon. this three-judge panel is an all-female panel with two judges appointed by president biden and one appointed by former president george h.w. bush. in addition to arguing immunity, trump lawyers are also making the argument that this produce is improper under double jeopardy. ken, i need to interrupt you because the hearing is starting. let s listen in right now. our jurisdiction was challenged by an amicus. you are not questioning our collateral order jurisdiction? [indis
but, looking and thinking about your answer about potentially not looking at motive and intent, when there is a criminal prosecution, that mens rea is part of the actual statute charged criminally. yes, precisely. that s why it wouldn t make sense to then come in and use this nonmotive intent. as i understand how fitzgerald outer perimeter standard might work, it could say those types of official acts, official conduct are that is something from which the president is immune. you don t ever get to that second question of, well, did that person act then with mens rea. can we prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? it is at least under a theory where it is not available at trial, then there is no way to reach that conduct. whether we re looking at this indictment, back to judge henderson s question about the use of blasting game, some of the acts are same or similar and there was direct discussion of