africa. whether or not those are harder to discern. particularly in mali in general where the whole concept of islamic state or al qaeda is tied up with efforts to get tribal autonomy and old-fashioned criminal activity, natalie. . all right. we appreciate it. sam kiley reporting from abu dhabi. michael weiss is co author of inside terror. he spoke with us about isis across the middle east. well, this is an organization that persisted for 16 years and suffered already major strategic defeats. the last one before the collapse of the caliphate a year ago was in 2010, 2011, when they were cast out of iraq.