Debate. And this is obviously a law and policy conference. I think well discuss a little more law than we have discussed in other panels and hopefully a little policy as well. So the broad team we picked for this panel, which i think we have detected has been true tore a lot of immigration stuff, since at least this president took over, is that some very important issues have been sort of getting shuttled among three branches of the government. These are you could say these are every each branch of the government is sort of hitting, putting the can in the other persons lap and hoping the can will stop there somewhere. Many of these cans havent stopped. This is our chance to see where the cans are and where they will finally land. So ill begin this by asking questions of our panelists more in a conversational style so we could get to many topics, than sort of one issue only for a long time. So let me start with cecil lia because she represents the aclu which many people regard has been