into these situations is because of who he is. one of the reasons he survives them is because of who he is. and in that tape, that conversation with him and inof woodward, he s very blase about the fact that he s trying to lie his way out of never knowing l that bob woodward tried to interview him. there s no real fear in it. he s playing ping-pong. yeah. and david frum, that s one of the great things about the tape that bob woodward released today-s there s a tape of donald trump and everything about it is false. i mean, it s just quite obvious. and people should go online and listen to the whole thing. where he s telling a recurring lie throughout the whole thing, which is that no one told him about this interview request and then bob woodward presses him just on one, on lindsey graham. he goes oh, well, okay, lindsey graham told and it s kind of a look into the way trump operates with every lie he can k get away with he will try. it is a really important tape to listen to beca
first stories from the book, and of course we ll all want to read the finished product, i understand as i think about it the james mattises and the general kellys. they re staying to serve the country. and i understand why they have to they feel they need to protect their position. to me donald trump is what he is and bob woodward is of course the elegant and eminent figure that he is. i m puzzled by the gary cohns, the h.r. mcmasters, the rex tillersons, the people who obviously talked to woodward, who obviously have unburdened themselves of their sense of the extreme not only unfitness but danger to the country by this president. are you going to do anything more than talk to a reporter months after the fact? why didn t you resign together? why didn t you on the day you left gary cohn, you are telling me that the president cannot remember that if you take a piece of paper off his desk that it was there, two hours later he then forgets the paper was ever there and he intended a
don t testify. it s either that or an orange jumpsuit. the president then said, i ll be a real good witness. you are not a good witness, dowd replied. mr. president, i m afraid i just can t help you. and the next morning john dowd quit and he left an opening on trump s defense team that has since been filled by rudy giuliani. leading off our discussion now, john heilemann, national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc. he s also co-host and executive producer of showtime s the circus. tim o brien s with us, executive editor of bloomberg opinion. he s the author of trump nation, a book about donald trump. and msnbc contributor. and david frum, a senior editor for the atlantic is the author of trumpocracy. john heilemann, you ve done this kind of work that bob woodward has done, you ve done it on the campaign trail, most famously and most widely read, game change and other books.
presidency, the woodward version. what bob woodward calls the best obtainable version of the truth. and so tonight bob woodward has tapes and the white house has press releases. the most damning quotes in the excerpts of bob woodward s book that were already released todaa from the president s former criminal defense lawyer john dowd.de bob woodward describes a rehearsal session with the president where john dowd pretended to be robert mueller asking the president questions. the washington post reports that in that rehearsal session donald trump s answers were stumbles, contradictions, and lies until the prevent eventually lost his cool. this thing s a god damn hoax trump erupted at the start of a 30-minute rant that finished with him saying i don t really want to testify. the book then describes a meeting john dowd with had he robert mueller and mueller s deputy james quarles in which dowd explained why he didn t n
father was such a high-ranking u.s. navy admiral. and then the book quotes james mattis as immediately correcting trump and saying, no, mr. president, i think you ve got it reversed. and the defense secretary then explained that mccain, who died on august 25th, had in fact turned down early release and was brutally tortured during his fine years at the hanoi hilton. to which trump says, oh, okay. so tim, it seems that trump had been getting away with that lie around any other circle in the white house until jim mattis is sitting there and has to correct him because truly that isn t the first time trump tried that. and remember, this is the donald trump who successfully got five draft deferments sew didn t have to serve in the vietnam war. donald trump, who refused to fly the flag at half mast over the white house after mccain passed away. he s the guy who holds on to these grudges for a very long time. you know, david frum touched on this earlier and john touched on it, is why do