frankly no. despite months of discussions, we could not reach a consensus, and i regret it. i m joined by madeleine schwartz, editor of the dial magazine and a journalist based in paris. nice to see you. francois hollande beirut, who many of us know as one of the veteran centrist he s been around for a long time, he said over the weekend that president macron had failed to explain the basic reason for the retirement reform thatis reason for the retirement reform that is that pensions are now being paid for with national debt. did the president do any better in expelling it tonight? president do any better in expelling it toniaht? ~ it tonight? well, we saw the night was really a it tonight? well, we saw the night was really a president it tonight? well, we saw the night was really a president who - it tonight? well, we saw the night was really a president who is - it tonight? well, we saw the night| was really a president who is trying to move the conversation on from this pension
elizabeth. the inequalities in french society. anne elizabeth. the hard inequalities in french society. effie: elizabeth. the hard economics is what emmanuel macron is banking on an ageing population, a relatively low retirement age, he says the country can t afford not to make these changes. country can t afford not to make these changes. you got some very basic figure. these changes. you got some very basic figure, you these changes. you got some very basic figure, you know these changes. you got some very basic figure, you know that - these changes. you got some very| basic figure, you know that france, like britain, about the same time as you had the beveridge reforms in britain in 1945, the french created the pension system which is a pay as you go system, people who are at work pay for the pension of people who have retired. in 1945 you had eight people working for one, now you have slightly under two people and of course that is unsustainable. that very understandable
have decided mutually it seems to postpone that visit. we are going to get into some of the details, not so much about the visit, but the reasons the pension reforms and what is happening. with me is anne elisabeth moutet a paris based journalist and political commentator. also i m joined by madeleine schwartz editor of the dial magazine and a journalist based in paris. thank you for come onst programme both. right, let us start, it is complicated, there is a lot to get through here, but let us start with you anne elizabeth. talk us through, this is about raising the pension age, from 62 to 64, which by many similar countries standards is quite low to begin with, what caused this outrage? well, many things, and at the state outrage? well, many things, and at the stage we outrage? well, many things, and at the stage we have outrage? well, many things, and at the stage we have reached - outrage? well, many things, and at the stage we have reached now, - outrage? well, many things
of these clashes between police and price for, lots of rally, protests have been peaceful but there have been significant clashes with police too. madeleine, can we bring you in, your thoughts onjust the too. madeleine, can we bring you in, your thoughts on just the scale of all this. your thoughts on ust the scale of all this. ~ ~ . , ., , all this. well, think it really goes to what anne all this. well, think it really goes to what anne elizabeth all this. well, think it really goes to what anne elizabeth just - all this. well, think it really goes to what anne elizabeth just said, j to what anne elizabeth just said, which to what anne elizabeth just said, which is to what anne elizabeth just said, which is this is a reform that is seen which is this is a reform that is seen as which is this is a reform that is seen as being unequal in its an care, seen as being unequal in its an care, everyone knew that macron was going care, everyone knew that macron was going to
public, today, he will give a rare tv interview. his hope will be to use the interview to calm things down and put an end to the protests. but that is easier said than done. emmanuel macron is facing his most serious challenge since the yellow vest riots four years ago. and, with more strikes planned for thursday, the anger that many french people feel is not going away. for more on this, i m joined now byjournalist and editor of the dial, madeleine schwartz, in paris. why is this raising such anger on the streets? the streets? this is a hugely unpopular the streets? this is a hugely unpopular reform, the streets? this is a hugely unpopular reform, polls - the streets? this is a hugelyl unpopular reform, polls show the streets? this is a hugely - unpopular reform, polls show that somewhere between 70 and 90% did not want this change to the french