ali. remarkable. ken, thank you for your reporting. ma am come, of course, for being on top of this since before the election. joining me now, nbc news legal analyst mimi roacha and larry. mimi, you said earlier today, the degree to which the trump campaign and the russians or trump and the surrogates and the russians using similar tactics targeting similar groups with the same ends. you said it s what prosecutors call circumstantial evidence with the same goals and similar methods. right. exactly, ali. look. there are differences but you cannot ignore the fact that we now know definitively despite trump s xlams claims to the co russia was trying to get trump elected. trump was trying to get elected. the goals are the same. not everything that the campaign