You can find more information about both of those verifications on our website and you tube channel but one irony our guest identifies in his new book is that britain was once the envy of the world when it came to handling epidemics Contact Tracing was pioneered against cholera in londons soho area and so what can we learn from past pandemics how they transform the world professor Frank Snowdon author of epidemics and society from the black death to the present joins me now via skype from rome in this early frank welcome to going underground before we get to the book which i think is being read by more and more people than maybe you even expected tell me about how you contract it coded in rome and why youve dedicated your life way before coronavirus to the study of pandemics and epidemics yes one devoted so many years to pandemic diseases because it seems to me there are a wonderful way forward. Understanding how societies function and their put together their values the relationships