have long asked what is the crime here? there is no crime of collusion with a foreign power. what are the potential crimes? robert mueller has answered that question by laying out complex conspiracy to defraud the united states. were any americans witting participants in that conspiracy, including any members of the trump campaign, david. i want to ask you how novel what you saw described in this indictment is when you look at the meddling that was allegedly happening in the u.s. is this textbook? is this something that governments would do and maybe do do around the world? well, actually, when i read it, i realized it sounded kind of fun. have people come in, work their way around the country, use false names, use false companies, manipulate people to achieve their goals. in some ways this indictment is a serious, legal document but for the russians there s probably a lot of people over there that are pretty proud of what they did. and they realize they did it for intelligence pur