and as i come back to that point, evidence needs to be gathered right away. evidence needs to be gathered right awa . , , , away. yes. it is interesting, martin, isn t away. yes. it is interesting, martin, isn t it, away. yes. it is interesting, martin, isn t it, that- away. yes. it is interesting, martin, isn t it, that they i away. yes. it is interesting, | martin, isn t it, that they are pointing towards war crimes? and there has been so much shock and outrage over the images that have been seen. but it is something, as penny says, that can take more than a decade and would not change the day to day of what ukrainians are going through right now. that day-to-day of what ukrainians are going through right now. day-to-day of what ukrainians are going through right now. that is the roblem, going through right now. that is the problem. of going through right now. that is the problem, of course, going through right now. that is the problem, of course, isn t going through right