policy director for chuck schumer. and kim atkins, we also have matt welch, editor at large for reason magazine. thank you all for being here to talk about through yet another round kimberly atkins of arguing and potential shutdowns related to imgrigs. let to immigration. people do not realize how much of the wall including really effective renovation has already been built. it seems to me that they are trying to set up this argument that is going to let him tell his supporters, actually, i got exactly what i told you i was going to do. it s all about messaging. well, first, it started out that mexico was going to pay for the wall. then it was going to be a new wall that was see-through. now, oh, well, we already have the wall and it s really fencing and stuff that was there before and renovations that have been happening all the time. but he needs to message, especially as he s going into this budget fight, which he knows he s probably not going to
they re in a very strong position. i think nancy s in a very strong position. kimberly, what s your sense of kind of how the other surrounding issues are affecting what s going on? to basically have a lame duck chief of staff, where we don t get a sense anybody wants to do that job. is that hampering the president s negotiating position? i think if anything that s got to motivate him to come to some sort of agreement and be able to tout some kind of win here, especially as the pressure from the mueller investigation, the chief of staff, everything else is hammering down on the white house. it s a lot of bad news. it either can be a motivator, something to get things done here, or it can affect his mood very badly. he goes into this with the wrong mind-set. that s always been the challenge, matt, which is that, you know, democrats have trouble trusting the president. they feel like they go into a room, they make a deal with himment he says one thing in the room and they turn on th