hobby lobby. they are appealing a federal judge s opinion denying a request to block the arts and crafts chain s rules we meet rules that they provide abortion pills in health care coverage. jordan seidler joins us. and we also have judge mcelroy, a federal prosecutor with us. they object to these warning after and birth control pills, a christian owned company. they say that this is abortion does. it is considered an abortion type of bill. but they said that the drugs do not cause abortions and the u.s. therefore has a compelling interest. is he wrong on both of those? i think he s wrong on both. the first amendment here, we