that s out there, and basically, who s going out with each other and things like that. so i don t think we can say that we are as innocent as we d like to be. 0k. i mean, miles coleman, joey there was talking about some of the great reporting that s been done, not least the sunday times stuff. there was also the guardian trying to establish how many migrant workers had died during this period of building the stadiums. you re the producer and writer of this new documentary about fifa. what is your take on what klopp said aboutjournalism? i think on the one hand, if we look at the climate in 2009, i 2010, when these bids- were being evaluated, like, nobody took qatar particularly seriously as a bid, the qataris admit them themselves. so, to some extent, not a ton was being written about them l because everyone looked at that bid and went, well, surely they re not going to go for that. . when they did, there was obviously kind of- a big shockwave and people, you know. went and re
about it and not about because it s qatar and things nor about the circumstances, which was clear. and this is where we are guilty. that s how it is. but now, telling players you have to wear this armband or if you don t do it, then you are not on their side. and if you do it, you re on their side. no, no, no. it s footballers. it s a tournament we have to organise and the players go there and play and do the best for their countries. joining me isjoey durso investigations writer at rhe athletic, miles coleman, producer and writer of fifa, uncovered a new documentary on netflix, and beth fisher, who s a freelance sports broadcaster. welcome to you all. joey durso, let s start with you. isjurgen klopp right that journalists dropped the ball on this one when it comes to qatar? no, i don t think he is. i think there s been lots of fantasticjournalism on this. i think you have to look back to the sunday times reporting on the bidding process itself. and there s been countless reporting on
take the counterfactual. - let s imagine that people had published reams and reams l of paper saying how dangerous the qatar world cup would be for workers, i how impractical it d be. let s imagine that there - was just hours of of air time and millions of column inches devoted to it. . it wouldn t have madel a blind bit of difference because the 22 men | and they were all men who voted for this they - didn t even read the bid book, really. we spoke, we interviewed with a gentleman. - we interviewed a gentleman called harry nicholls, - who wrote that bid book for fifa. - he said nobody picked up the phone to him - and asked him . a single question. his conclusion was that these guys didn t even read it. - so what s the counterfactual? ifjournalists had written - everything possible criticising qatar s bid, these guys were not interested in evaluatingl the bids on that - basis, on its merits. they were interested - in what was in it for them. and joey, on the wider point that beth
bodies cancel outjournalists who ve maybe said the wrong thing. so, has klopp got maybe the right opinion? i would say i don t think he s completely wrong. i think, you know, just like politics, i think sport has a lot to answer for in terms of the journalism that s out there, and basically, who s going out with each other and things like that. so i don t think we can say that we are as innocent as we d like to be. 0k. i mean, miles coleman, joey there was talking about some of the great reporting that s been done, not least the sunday times stuff. there was also the guardian trying to establish how many migrant workers had died during this period of building the stadiums. you re the producer and writer of this new documentary about fifa. what is your take on what klopp said aboutjournalism? i think on the one hand, j if we look at the climate in 2009, 2010, when these bids were being evaluated, - like, nobody took qatar particularly seriously i as a bid, the qataris- admit them themse
were not interested - in evaluating the bids on that basis, on its merits. - they were interested - in what was in it for them. and joey, on the wider point that beth s making about sports journalism more broadly, do you think that there is a reluctance to hold power to account at times simply because if you do, you might get barred from that interview with the manager or the interview with the player that you really need to do yourjob. i mean, absolutely. i think there s that constant battle when you re reporting on a club or a player, the access is very important and people want to read interviews and stuff. i think with qatar, it s almost the other way, it s now kind of complete open season with very legitimate criticism of qatar. it s almost going to look odd not to. i think it s really penetrated public consciousness way beyond the sort of media circles that there s lots of great reporting on russia in 2018, but it s so widespread and so mainstream now that i think as a sports rep